Ep.90 Storm Mackay: Identity, Disruptive Marketing and Building Bold Brands as a Masc Non-Binary Founder

Book yourself a Rebel Reset coaching session for November - 90 minutes ro get unstuck and get moving towards that life you actually want!

*FYI - this one's full of F-bombs and swear words. If this offends you, it's not going to be the episode for you....!

What happens when you stop chasing everyone and start choosing the few who truly get you? We sit down with Storm Mackay, founder of Soba Private Label, to unpack their unglossy reality of building a distinctive brand and a life designed on purpose. No hustle theatre, no yacht mythology—just the messy, honest path from wrong offers and empty pipelines to a bold identity, a ramen‑slurping mascot, and clients who pay for real thinking.

Storm shares why “splitting the room” is the most underrated growth strategy in saturated markets, and how clear positioning lives in the buyer’s mind long before a sales call. We dig into the craft of memorable assets, irreverent copy that earns attention, and the patience it takes for a message to wear in. You’ll hear why Soba chose to “win a city” instead of a country and what it looks like to do your own marketing in public so prospects trust you faster.

Beyond tactics, we go deep on identity, values, and redefining ambition. Storm’s version of success isn’t headcount—it’s five great clients, time for their garden, and work that feels aligned. We talk about handling rejection without shrinking your signal, drawing firm lines around client fit, and the radical clarity that comes from stepping away from social media comparison. If you’ve felt stuck between safe and alive, this conversation offers a map: choose your 5 percent, hold the line, and let the rest fall away.

If this resonates, follow the show, share it with one brave friend, and leave a quick review—what’s one expectation you’ll break this week?

https://www.soba.agency/
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Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome To Mischief Movement
• 1:30 Meet Storm Mackay And The Premise
• 2:35 Identity, Pronouns And Perception
• 5:20 Punk Roots, Mascots And Brand Distinctiveness
• 8:30 From Corporate To Chaos: Starting Up
• 12:05 Surviving Droughts, Windfalls And Repositioning
• 16:10 Choosing To Polarise And Win A City
• 19:20 What Breaking The Mould Looks Like In Practice
• 22:30 Proof Over Posturing: Doing Your Own Marketing
• 23:45 CTA: The Rebel Reset
• 24:30 Starting A Scottish Business Podcast
• 28:20 Rejection, Resilience And Finding Your Tribe
• 31:20 Work, Autonomy And Redefining Ambition
• 35:10 Industry Hurdles And UK Mindsets
• 38:15 Partnerships And Positioning 101
• 42:00 Values, Boundaries And Client Fit
• 45:00 Dream Clients And Holding The Line
• 48:10 Personal Distinctiveness And The Data
• 51:00 Rule-Breaking Advice: Log Off And Live
• 54:00 Host Recap And Key Takeaways

Transcript

Storm Mackay: 0:00

Just by being me and just by showing up in the way that I show up, people are either going to buy into it or they're not. And by not chasing people that don't buy into it, you save a lot of time and a lot of energy, and you can move on to the people that do.

Zoe Greenhalf: 0:15

Hey there. Welcome or welcome back to the Mischief Movement Podcast. I'm Zoe, your guide on this journey to shake up the status quo and design a life that truly makes you feel alive. If you've ever felt disconnected, stuck on autopilot, or trapped in a life that feels more like a treadmill than an adventure, you're in the right place. I know that change can feel scary, so let's turn down the fear and crank up the fears as we transform your life from the inside out. Whether it's solo episodes packed with actionable advice or interviews with some absolute balanced human beings who dare to defy the norm by living life their way, we're here to inspire, activate, empower and challenge you each week. My mission is simple: to help you reawaken your rebel spirit, break free from mediocrity, and design a life that's anything but done. You only get one wild life. So what are you planning to do with yours? If you're ready to stop settling, start living boldly and create a positive impact along the way. Let's dive in and stir up some mischief together. Now buckle up and let's go. So today we're diving into a story about breaking the mould. My guest is Storm Mackay, founder of Sober Private Label in Scotland, a marketing agency that's redefining the rules of business and leadership. Storm is non-binary, unapologetically themselves, and they're showing the world that success doesn't have to look conventional. It can look like you. We'll explore how identity, authenticity, and a little mischief can reshape not just your career but your life. If you've ever felt boxed in by expectations or the right way to do things, this episode is for you. So get ready to challenge the rules, think differently, and take some bold action. Pierre, it's a little bit sweary, this one. So if you are listening with small people around, you might want to pop your headphones in. Okay, so here we go this week with Dor Mackay. And I just want to welcome you to start with. Thank you. Please tell me what your mischief is and tell the listeners.

Storm Mackay: 2:35

What is my mischief? I'm a mask non-binary and that fucks people up and I just do not give a fuck. And I'd I should have asked you before we started recording if it's okay to swear, but you don't look mortified, so I'm guessing we're good to go.

Zoe Greenhalf: 2:49

If I said no now, it'd change anything.

Storm Mackay: 2:54

Yeah, I think it's you know it's interesting. There's a saying, uh femmes can be thems, right? Which means that people that look really feminine can be non-binary, but there's no alternative for people that look masculine. And I look very mask, right? I've got the bald head, I've got the long beard, um, I've got a sort of, I mean, I don't want to say this myself because it sounds incredibly like wanky, but I've got a sort of mask build, you know. Um, and that throws people off when you're sort of like, oh hi, I'm Storm and it's they them. But what I'm learning and have learned, firstly, is that most people are decent, um, but it's quite fun and mischievous the way that it can sort of trip people up. You know, they they don't always expect it. But when they pay closer attention to me, I think they see things like the sort of, you know, the nail polish and all of that, which for me, I mean, I grew up listening to punk and metal, right? That that wasn't an unusual thing. But as you go through life as a grown-up, it is apparently quite an unusual thing. Really? Yeah, and it's interesting too, because um men will always stop me on the street and tell me that they love my beard, and women will always stop me and tell me they love my nail polish. And it's never the other way around.

Zoe Greenhalf: 4:07

That's interesting. Have you ever seen um Sam Coniff, who wrote Be More Pirate? He's been a very big part of a whole movement towards questioning society's idea of masculinity by encouraging men specifically um to wear nail varnish, to to get people talking about it, to get, you know, to sort of like, I suppose to be a bit kind of mischievous and be like, oh, that's kind of unusual.

Storm Mackay: 4:38

That's cool. I mean, do you remember when Pirates of the Caribbean came out? Yeah. I mean, that was so long ago. And yet Johnny Depp's Jack Sparrow, both incredibly camp and also arguably very masculine. But I think then we lived in the realm of, well, Johnny Depp can pull it off. He's famous and eccentric. I think now happily we're seeing more people who are not famous, uh, but are equally as eccentric trying to pull off those same things and and often doing it.

Zoe Greenhalf: 5:07

Yeah. So tell me, how do you spend your days? What do you like to do? What do you build up?

Storm Mackay: 5:13

This is the boring bit.

Zoe Greenhalf: 5:15

No, it doesn't have to be boring.

Storm Mackay: 5:16

Um, what do I like to do? I'm such a I'm su yeah, yeah, that's interesting. I've been building a company for the last couple of years. I'm sure you have a bunch of people on that that talk about that sort of stuff. And I think people always say like they're building a company, like they're some kind of big entrepreneur or, you know, they're gonna solve world hunger. Um, we're not gonna do that, right? We do market positioning. It's it is what it is. Um but we love the idea that, and there is science to back this up too, that business shouldn't be boring, right? Um, and so what you can see that your listeners can't is that I'm surrounded by pictures of my mascot. My mascot's called the ramen rascal. It's an anime character of a dog eating a bowl of ramen. And the whole reason behind that, I mean, that the you know, there's a lot of really interesting like research around how people build emotional uh connections with characters and with mascots. But what I love about it is that for a professional services company, which is Austin sensibly what we are, it is incredibly different and it's really weird, and consistently it stops people in their tracks. You know, you turn up to a meeting with a lawyer and you've got an anime character on your t-shirt, and they're like, what the fuck? And we're we're very much about, you know, you have to split the room. It's fine if you can get in the room. Most brands, most people are in the room. Um, I'm being generous with that assessment, but if you're in it, you need to split it. Because if people feel milked toast about you, then no one's gonna buy from you, right? Um, and you see this everywhere. It's mostly men of a certain age, by the way, telling me that my brand sucks or that we need to tone things down or that things don't make sense. Um, and that to me is a good signal that it's working exactly as it should.

Zoe Greenhalf: 7:11

Amazing. Where has this come from? Give me a little bit of the backstory.

Storm Mackay: 7:16

Yeah, I mean, it it all sort of happened accidentally, which I th which I think is, you know, I was ahead of marketing for a while. Um, I've worked, ironically, worked in an AI company before AI was cool and interesting. Um, and they have died a death, which was not my fault. Um, it happened after I left. Uh, but coming out of that, I sort of thought, you know, I've been pushing and pushing and pushing to build a career since I basically left university, right? So I did university from 18 to 21. Um, came out, it was, you know, get a job, get a mortgage, pay rent, all that sort of stuff. And I got to the point where I was just like, I'm sick of this shit. Um, I'm sick of like answering to a CEO, I'm sick of having to justify my existence, my paycheck. This I think partly comes from being an you know originally a marketer. And when that job ended up ending, I just thought, fuck it. I'm gonna I'm gonna see if I can build something with my own two hands. And if I can't, I can get another job. And I'm lucky and privileged that I'm in that position, right? That I've got 12 years of a career behind me, so that if things do blow up in my face, I'm not starting from scratch. Um but knowing that I thought, okay, let's give it a go. And oh my god, Zoe, it was a shit show. No one ever talks about this, right? They're always like, oh, I I built a company and and it was incredible, and I made six figures in the first three months. We fucking didn't, man. We did not know our like face from our asses at all. Um we were selling the wrong thing to the wrong people. We didn't know anybody when we started. Um me and my former co-founder Dan were like just you know, textbook introvert cum hermits. And so people go rinse your network, and we called the three people that we knew on day one, three people between us, I think. And they all went, Nah, we don't have anything for you. We went, Oh Jesus, that's not good. No. Um yeah, so we didn't work for the first, I want to say like three months, four months, or something. I know a lot of comp people come out of their big corpie jobs and they have a whole lot of friends and family and they get a whole lot of cash. And those are the plain sailing bits for them, right? We went straight into the depths of hell. Um, and it was horrendous.

Zoe Greenhalf: 9:39

So nobody now listening ever wants to start a marketing business.

Storm Mackay: 9:44

Don't do it. Genuinely, right? There are 20,000 marketing agencies in the UK. So if anyone listening wants to start a marketing agency, my advice is don't do it. The competition is incredibly fierce. Um, it's a race to the bottom in terms of pricing.

Zoe Greenhalf: 10:02

But you still did it.

Storm Mackay: 10:03

I did still do it because I'm insane. Um, and now I'm in too deep to pull the parachute. But I would say to other people, don't jump out of the plane, find a different plane to jump out of, is what I would say. Starting a business, I think, is fun. I think it's interesting and it's scary. Um and it makes you grow up a lot. And you really have to prioritize your life because you go from like having a salary and knowing how much you're going to make every month to looking at your personal bank statement and looking at the business's bank statement and deciding how much of your own money plus the business's money you can spend on advertising before you need to go back to getting Amazon to deliver you like 24 packs of instant noodles. Um this is the shit that no one tells you.

Zoe Greenhalf: 10:49

Well, like it's awesome that you're saying this because I think there is all that kind of glossy Instagram kind of, yeah, start your own business, quit your job, make six figures in a month, and and it's all bullshit. Um and it's nice to have a real conversation about the real struggles. So, you know, there's you and your um your co-founder with three people that you know between you trying to drum up some business. Well, how does it all pan out? What happens next?

Storm Mackay: 11:20

So we f I think we made the mistake that a lot of people make, which is that we spent a lot of time around other people starting businesses, right? Um I don't mean this disparagingly, but those people have no money. So we had to learn very quickly that we didn't we needed to not spend our time around people that didn't have any money, or we were gonna starve to death. Thankfully, we got a referral from someone that I so I had a podcast um about five years ago. And I met this guy, we kept in touch, I hit him up, he gave me a referral into someone else who needed marketing, um, and they were like an agency, and we sort of white-labeled under that agency. And for about three months before Liz Trust completely crashed the economy, we were living like gods. We were just making more money than either of us had ever made in our lives. Um, and then the arse fell out of the economy, and again, we went from not working for four months to working like crazy for three months, making tons of money, to then basically not working for like another sex. Um, which teaches you how to budget very, very quickly, by the way. And we knew at that point that there was something wrong with what we were doing. This is not like some kind of a hero story or whatever, right? We just we knew that we were gonna run out of rope. And um that was when we really started to look at it and say, okay, well, if there's 20,000 other marketing agencies, clearly we're not unique. Clearly we're not interesting. But this is weird because we're both very unique people. Dan's got head tattoos and sleeves the same as I do. You know, he's like, he sort of looks a bit like Nick Cave, if Nick Cave was sort of ginger. Um and then I'm me, and and we were like, well, this is weird because we're alternative, interesting-looking people. Why do we have the world's most boring business? And once we kind of reckoned with that for a really long time, we spent days and days on the phone to each other trying to work it out. We ended up coming out with the sober branding, the bright green, you know, the sort of noodle motif, the mascot, the the sort of bulciness, and realizing that like we actually don't need to win every single client. We only need to win like 5% of the market, if that. And I think what a lot of companies do is they start off going, well, we need to win business from everyone. And we did too, right? And there are people who we started with, started at the same time as us, who had the big networks and the family support. All but there were four companies, I think, all but one of them are gone. They've all gone back to ordinary jobs, and this is in the last two and a half years. Like because of the things that we've talked about, right? They had the strong networks. They're all lovely people, by the way. They're gonna listen to this and be like, wow, Storm, you're an asshole. But you know, they they had great networks and and great support, but they had businesses that weren't differentiated. They offered everything to everyone. They didn't have strong brands. And what we found is that the more bulgy and in your face our brand has been, the further it's carried us through.

Zoe Greenhalf: 14:24

I love that. So that's the branding that you came up with. That's the branding that you've been running with. How has that changed the kind of caliber of clients that you were then able to attract? Did it work straight out the gate? You set up your branding, you got really clear on your message. Did it work for you in terms of you went from no business to then getting in some really interesting clients?

Storm Mackay: 14:45

I think I'm supposed to say yes.

Zoe Greenhalf: 14:47

And I'm supposed to- I mean the the honest answer is fine, you know that.

Storm Mackay: 14:51

Yeah. I'm supposed to say yes. And this is what all the entrepreneurs and the hustle bros want you to say. And they want you to say yes straight away, everything turned around, and I'm now talking to you from my yacht and the Maldives. Um, but it's a mixed bag, right? Yeah, you're like, I've seen your fucking house. Um it's a it's a mixed bag. It takes time for messaging to build in, right? In the same way that like when you're a kid and you're figuring out who you are, and then you sort of latch on to a personality trait and you try to figure out if this is you or an affectation. And by the time you turn 25, you realize it's not an affectation and you are just a little weirdo. Brands are very much of a similar thing. They need to build, they need to wear in, people need to see them and get to know them. So at the start, it's a mixed bag. We're getting more people, people are saying that they've heard of us, which is great. Signs are positive, but the longer that we've pushed on, and I think we've been with this brand for about two years now, maybe like two years and three months, something like that. Um it's getting the caliber of clients is reaching more, it's doing better, it's impressing people more. And especially because I've now realized like people have to buy into me. And if they don't buy into me, then we're that this is not gonna work. Um because as much as I hate doing it, and as much as I'm prefer that the Raman rascal is the face of the business, I've ended up, despite my best efforts, as the sort of like I I don't know. I mean, I know that you're not in Glasgow, but like we do a lot of regional advertising in Glasgow, right? And um one thing we're really focused on is winning a city instead of trying to win a country. And so you go out and you see these billboards and they say, Are you a sadist or do you like when the competition beats you? They've got this little ramen dog dog getting ramen, and then people meet this sort of like bald-headed, ginger-bearded, tattooed, non-binary queer, and they're just like, What the fuck have I got myself into? But as that wears in, you tend to find more and more people who are open to that. And when they're open to that, they're really open to that, and then they pay you more money, and then they want your advice more, and all of that kind of thing. So, like, that's the thing that we've found over the kind of mid to longer term.

Zoe Greenhalf: 17:09

So, what does it mean to then, you know, to break the mold? I can't imagine you working with really boring, dull businesses, or rather, you take the really dull, boring businesses and you create some magic with them. You turn them into something really really fucking cool. Um I hope so.

Storm Mackay: 17:29

Sometimes it's both. Um, but I think a lot of the time, like the what's really cool could for one category can be really different to what I would do myself. Um you know Cathedral City, the cheese brand? Yes. So they've got a new billboard and it just says it's a picture of a burger sliced in half vertically. One side is no cheese, one side is cheese. One side says burgers, the other says better. Like cheese makes things better or whatever. It's fairly sort of lackluster. You know, these things cost money, and I just look at that and I'm like, you didn't even make a fucking effort. So what I would do is I would change better to God tear because I like a good pun. Cathedral City, cheese makes things better, God tear burgers with Cathedral City, right?

Zoe Greenhalf: 18:16

Mm-hmm.

Storm Mackay: 18:16

So for that category, you don't have to go in and say, Are you a sadist? It's just about finding the right like bit of attitude. And so being a mold breaker for some companies can be as simple, and this pains me to say this, as not just talking about themselves on their fucking website. But for others, like us, it's gotta be here's the character, here's the the sort of um I've got an article coming out in the Herald like in the next few days, uh talking about how Scottish businesses have a lethal lack of ambition. Like that's mold breaking for us. But we'll we have to occupy that space. Not everyone has to occupy the same mold-breaking space as us. Obviously, I would prefer that they did, right? Because the world would be super interesting. Um, but I've got to be realistic with my dreams.

Zoe Greenhalf: 19:04

Yeah. And why, you know, do you think that's because you're one of the few people who is outspoken about this? This is the situation, but nobody's really talking about it.

Storm Mackay: 19:15

Yeah, none of the stuff I'm doing is new. Yeah. Um, there's a whole lot of research from like the Ehrenberg-Bass Institute and recently from System One around differentiation, distinctive assets, all of that kind of stuff. People just get scared, I think is is more the thing. They don't want to put off the market. They don't want to lose clients or potentially lose clients. They want to feel like they're open to every single deal that could ever possibly exist. What we need to do as a company and as a brand is prove to people through what we do ourselves that that doesn't have to be the case. That you can dominate 5, 10% of the market and still be richer than God. Um, which I'm not, by the way, but give me a little while. Um and I think, you know, when people see that we put our money where our mouth is, do our own advertising, they buy in a lot faster because other agencies will tell them the stuff that we tell them, but then they won't do it themselves. So people go, we have to trust you, and then they get scared and then they don't want to do anything.

Zoe Greenhalf: 20:24

You know, I've been talking to so many people lately who feel a bit stuck, not broken or lost, but just caught in that weird in-between where you know that you're meant for more, but you just can't seem to get yourself moving. Um and honestly, I get it because I've been there too. That's actually why I created something new called the Rebel Reset. It's a 90-minute session where we shake things up, we cut through the fog, and we get you moving again in a way that actually feels like you. So if you've been waiting for a sign or you're tired of ending the year feeling frustrated, this might be exactly what you need. So you can just message me reset on Instagram or you can reply directly via text through the show notes if you're curious. All right, back to the episode. I just want to circle back a minute because you did mention your podcast and yeah. It would be interesting to hear a little bit about that because that came about in slightly interesting circumstances too, didn't it?

Storm Mackay: 21:37

It did. So it was surprisingly in all of the years that podcasting has been around. And when did it start? Like a really fucking long time ago. Oh, didn't it? The no one had started a Scottish business podcast. There was just no podcast out there talking to Scottish businesses about what it's like to do business in Scotland, what it's like to be Scottish brands, like all of that kind of stuff. And I didn't have a job because the pandemic was cruel to us all in certain ways. And uh and I didn't know anybody because introvert come hermit. And so I thought, okay, well, what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna start a podcast talking to Scottish businesses about doing Scott bit business in Scotland and try and build up my network. And maybe I'll meet some people, and maybe those people will be interesting, and maybe one of them will know someone who knows someone that's hiring. Um so I think we ran 20 or 30 episodes, doing like one a week. So it was a decent like amount of time. Um we looked at the video games industry, we talked to people in distilling naturally, people in tech. Um, you know, the sort of burgeoning, not the distilling's burgeoning, but the sort of like burgeoning clusters around like technology and gaming and entertainment. And that that did end up leading to getting a job, which was pretty cool. Um there was a shit job though. So sometimes first thought, best thought's not always the way to go. Um sorry, Pete, I love you. And I yeah, that was a just a really interesting way of being like, okay, I'm I'm in a city where I can't go out and meet people. Applying for jobs is worse now than it was then, but still felt like screaming into the void. I need to do fucking something.

Zoe Greenhalf: 23:22

But you hadn't been there that long.

Storm Mackay: 23:25

No, um, I think God, I'd been in Edinburgh for I want to say like six weeks, maybe eight weeks or something. So it was three three weeks before the pandemic, because I still remember seeing the signs in bus shelters saying don't forget to wash your hands for 10 seconds and being like that seems weird. And then we all know what happened next.

Zoe Greenhalf: 23:53

Yeah.

Storm Mackay: 23:53

You just gotta go for it sometimes.

Zoe Greenhalf: 23:56

But still, I do think there's a lot to be said for being bold enough to just go, I'm in any place, I need to meet people, I need a job, what can I do? A lot of people would have just gone through the normal channels of let me look on LinkedIn, let me see who I know. And I think now a lot more people have started podcasts, but back then, I think it's quite cool that you saw that opportunity and you used it strategically that way.

Storm Mackay: 24:22

Yeah, I think five years ago it was probably like more interesting than it is now, if that makes sense. I think if I did it now, there would just be tons of competition and it would probably be less effective. But yeah, five years ago before everyone had a podcast, I think that was probably you know, it was partly a timing thing. I think also like one of the things that sucks in life is when people say no to you. But it's kind of a resilience-building thing. If people can say no to you a tons of time, tons of times, what the fuck? You can start to realize that like no just means no. It's not a judgment on your self-worth, it's not a judgment on your ability. It might be sometimes a judgment on the person who said no to you, right? Because they might not see your potential or they might not get what you're trying to do. Getting to a point where you're like, okay, I've had a lot of people say no, but this is a thing I really like, or I really just want to keep doing, I think is really the kind of like secret to, you know, being able to consistently like break the mold, make sure that you're not gonna fall off a building and smash your head open on concrete, try to have a safety net of some kind of course. Not saying anyone should like quit their job and start a fucking podcast. But if you try to start a podcast and loads of people are saying no to being interviewed, fuck them off and find someone that will say yes.

Zoe Greenhalf: 25:43

Have you had a lot of rejections in the podcast and with your business?

Storm Mackay: 25:48

Oh, all the time. Constantly. I think like now we have a really proactive approach with the business to try to um sort of essentially alienate as much of the market as possible and just find our tribe. But before that, all the time, so much of business is being told no, being told not now, being told not interested, being told fuck off, like however people put it, right? Because you get people in all kinds of moods. We do a lot of direct mail, and we sent someone um a pair of chopsticks and a letter to go with them to introduce ourselves, and we didn't hear anything back. And we called, and uh she was like, I got them, and I thought it was bullshit, and I just threw it straight in the bin. And I like, I'm not gonna lie, I'm not gonna sit here and pretend that I'm you know big and strong and have all my emotions in check. Like it ruined my fucking day. Yeah. But then you kind of got to figure out like, okay, are you gonna let one person stop you or are you gonna try and find the people that actually want to vibe with you? And it turns out, I think, that that, you know, depending on how someone says no to you, whether it's in like business or relationships or starting a podcast or whatever, can often define how they would have been as a friend or as a client. Like if someone turns you down in a really rude way, chances are you've dodged a bullet.

Zoe Greenhalf: 27:10

Yeah. Yeah, I totally agree with that. Um you know, sort of following on from this idea of rejection, I guess, but is there like a mindset shift that you've had to go through off the back of starting your own business? At the beginning, it was really hard. And you had to make that decision of are we just gonna blend in with everybody else, or are we gonna really lean into who we are?

Storm Mackay: 27:39

Yes. And this is not gonna be the answer you expect.

Zoe Greenhalf: 27:42

Okay, brilliant.

Storm Mackay: 27:44

I fucking hate working. Of all the things that I could be doing with my life, working is not in the top 10 or top 100 even, right? There are many days where I would rather pull my own fingernails off than sit down at my laptop and try to do some fucking work. And I have always been like this. And I think it is the I'm incredibly work shy. And I know that people say there's a generational thing about being work shy, and everyone gets all like, uh, um, but I'm happy to own it. I'm incredibly work shy.

Zoe Greenhalf: 28:12

It's okay, they don't listen to my podcast. It's fine.

Storm Mackay: 28:16

I think there's a place for people like me, though, who are incredibly work shy because it makes us try to find other ways of doing things. Okay. And it is true that starting a company is a loss of work. And that feels really counterintuitive. But the reverse side is that you don't have to turn up at your desk at nine o'clock every fucking morning. You don't have to ask someone else if you can go and leave because you can't afford to go and leave because you broke, because you started a fucking business. Um, you know, you don't have to worry about using more than like three sick days in a month, or or like I work used to work at a company that had these incredibly arbitrary deadlines. Everything was on deadline, everything was urgent until like the second it wasn't and something else was urgent. And they just ran around and rounded circles. You've I'm not gonna say who it is, but you've definitely heard of this company.

unknown: 29:10

Okay.

Storm Mackay: 29:10

And they definitely do market research. So there's that mindset shift of like, if this doesn't work, you have to go back and you have to actually like work work. If you go into an agency, you've got to fill out timesheets. They want to know how you're spending your day. I get my best ideas when I'm out dicking around with the dog. You can't put that in a timesheet, you know? Um, and if it doesn't work, uh you've got to calculate how much leave do I have so that I can take time off of a Christmas. Like there's all these kind of little things. And so I I have this really strong kind of disgust for the way that we're set up as white collar workers, the things that we're supposed to do and how we're supposed to do them. And I know that this comes from a place of immense privilege, right? But it it may Makes me think like, okay, well, there must be something better. There must be something else. And so when I look at Soba, people go, Oh, do you want Soba to be a multinational like business? Do you want to have like a hundred employees? And I'm like, nope, I want to work on five clients a year. And I know exactly how much those clients need to spend so that I can work five times a year and I can fuck off again and do something else. Um, and you know, some people think that that's a lack of ambition, but my ambition is making sure that the 20-something fruit trees I planted in my garden don't die. Like it's it depends on kind of what you want out of life, I guess.

Zoe Greenhalf: 30:36

It certainly does. And but that's I mean, that's the whole point. The whole point is that we have the power to design that our lives the way we wanted it we want them to be. And if that for somebody means starting a business so that they can then scale it and have a massive team and they'll go global and all the rest of it, fine. But it for the same reason, it could also mean that somebody wants to start a business and remain a team of two or three people and keep it small and tight, make a huge profit and still be able to do all the stuff that they want to do in their spare time. So I actually really respect the fact that everybody has their own idea of you know, it's that it's that boring question of, you know, what does success mean to you? Um but essentially it's being able to design a life that you want to live and that works for you, surely.

Storm Mackay: 31:30

Yeah, and I think people shit on lifestyle businesses and lifestyle jobs a lot because of the system that we're in, right? It's a systemic issue. Yeah. But actually, I think that if you can nail down a lifestyle business for yourself or a lifestyle job and that's what you want, more power to you. Like if you can make things work by working part-time, fuck it, why not?

Zoe Greenhalf: 31:50

Yeah.

Storm Mackay: 31:51

You know, um, and maybe that means reorganizing your life and not going to France every six months. You know, it might be that you work three days a week and you have enough and you can do other things with that. You know, if it's creative pursuits or whatever it might be, like I think we can definitely be telling people you're not going to be richer than Rishi Sunak. No one is. But also it's perfectly valid to just be like, actually, you know what, I want to dick about my garden, plant some potatoes, um, and you know, spend my weekends with my pals, apologizing profusely to them that I have no money because I only work three times a week. But there are free things you can do, you know? So I think really, yeah, it's just like if people can or want to recalibrate around that and make those like lifestyle choices, they are available, but they are lifestyle choices, right? And they're not always easy choices.

Zoe Greenhalf: 32:46

Yeah, for sure. Well, if they were that easy, everybody would be off doing it. Everybody would.

Storm Mackay: 32:52

Yeah, and like like I don't have kids, right? So like that totally changes my whole approach to work. Because if I had like four mini mace running around, I'd be like, oh Jesus, I need to make some actual fucking money. Um, so it's a totally different thing, right? So I have to say, like, yeah, I'm coming at this from a perspective of having chosen not to have kids, this is how I can explore that freedom um and try different things.

Zoe Greenhalf: 33:18

Yeah, that's true. Look, we've touched on the fact that at the beginning your business wasn't making money and you had to make some adjustments, but what are some of the struggles and the challenges that you've had to face over the last few years of of running sober private label?

Storm Mackay: 33:35

Where do I start? There have been so many. Some of the biggest challenges that you have, I think, are cultural, which is especially from our industry, convincing UK business owners that they need to give a shit about their marketing, convincing them that they cannot do it themselves, and also educating them and making them realize that posting on Facebook does not make you a marketer, right? Um, there's this whole other thing around, you know, market research and pricing and products and just all these things that that people aren't aware of. What we found working for companies in different countries is that Europe and the US, broadly speaking, there's always exceptions, are more open to other people's expertise. Whereas in the UK, it's very much like, oh, I can just probably do this myself, so I'll just give it a go. And people are are very tight-fisted, they don't really want to spend money here. Um, so that's been a I think a really big challenge for us is like coming up against that mentality. Um, and then having to figure out how do you fish successfully in another pond where you aren't physically located. Um, because say what you want about remote working, trying to break into New York City, for example, from Glasgow is not really something you can just do with the Zoom link.

Zoe Greenhalf: 34:58

So, how did you do it?

Storm Mackay: 35:00

So we did it by teaming up with other people in the US that we met. So we find, I'm big on partnerships. We find people who are complimentary to us. We do one thing to market positioning, nothing else. Um, and so quite often people will say, Oh, great, we've done this. Can you do our marketing? And I say, absolutely fucking not, but speak to this person who can. And so through building up those partnerships and being able to refer people to other people, it it then you then realize that, okay, we can actually come together under a single brand, sometimes ours, sometimes someone else's, and offer a full service solution. Or I can't believe I just said service solution. I'm always ragging people for Corp Speak. Um, or looking at, you know, can you do a combined sort of brand or outreach like event? And those are the ones that have worked really well for us. So here's how you can do lead gen, but here's how your positioning needs to happen.

Zoe Greenhalf: 35:55

Yeah.

Storm Mackay: 35:56

Go out and buy a bunch of people and then just work them until they convert.

Zoe Greenhalf: 36:00

It's boring, but that's tell me about no, but tell me about market positioning then, because what like what does that even mean?

Storm Mackay: 36:06

Yeah, good question. So when you have a problem, right, and you think of a company, that means that company has good market positioning. So if you're thirsty, statistically think speaking, you will think of Coca-Cola as something to quench your thirst, right? Okay. Now I can say that with confidence because Coca-Cola is the world's most popular drink after water. Chances are you won't think of Pepsi. Yeah. Pepsi's got a real like vibe to it. So you can argue that Pepsi has poor market positioning, Coca-Cola has good market positioning. So your market position is the space that you occupy in the mind of a buyer. So if someone thinks of you to solve a problem, whatever that problem is, you've nailed it. If they don't think of you, then you've fucked it, essentially. That's it, like boiled right down to its bare essentials. Um, so if you need something fast and quickly, where do you go? Amazon. Um, if you want to see a film, where do you go? Probably Omniplex. You know, so a lot of things like advertising have a lot to do with that because people buy from brands that they know, they buy from things they're familiar with. So you need to sort of repeat that and nail it down, get them familiar with it. There's a reason McDonald's and Nike and Adidas still do advertising, right? Yeah. Um, because they need to be that sort of like front of mind. But yeah, essentially what we do is help people be the number one choice in their category for solving their particular problem. So if you're an accounting firm, for example, um, then we'll help them stand out, which is, you know, easy because all accountants do the same thing and charge the same price for it. Um and they all live off referrals. And so you can sort of say to them, hey, I can confidently speak to any accounting firm and say, I think about 80% of your business comes from referrals. And they'll be like, yeah.

Zoe Greenhalf: 37:57

You know, in terms of what your personal values are, how do you stay true to who you are in a business like marketing?

Storm Mackay: 38:08

I was expecting a fluffy question. You know, like, what's your favorite sweet?

Zoe Greenhalf: 38:13

You can answer that too if you like. What is your favorite site?

Storm Mackay: 38:16

I don't think I could tell you. Um, I like them all. I'm a sugar demon. Yeah, so I found this a lot harder as an employee, by the way. So I think that a lot of employees do like struggle with this because it's like, where do you fit in? And I think especially, you know, when you're God mask and non-binary and you're meeting people and you're having to remind them, or you're the only person who puts, you know, your pronouns in your email footer, or just all of those kinds of things, like this really varies from company to company, and that can be really hard and really exhausting. And I think there it's really easy in that respect to kind of keep a lot of yourself back and just sort of show up to work and and move on. I know people talk about bringing your whole self to work, but like no one really wants that, right? Like it's it sounds nice on a piece of paper, but if I have to fuck off for half a day because I'm just feeling super stressed, your employer's like, you have to make up those hours. That's not bringing your whole self to work. So you sort of have to push things down, I think. Being a company owner, I think makes you lucky. I mean, you know, lucky is a sort of relative term, but like I think it makes you lucky because you end up being able to say, okay, well, if I don't agree with these people, can I budget out in a way that means maybe we're turning down work or we're turning down clients, but I'm not risking not being able to pay my mortgage. This is a fine balance. But only wanting to work with people who buy into who you are or what you stand for. The way that we found that, and again, like this wasn't at the start. I don't want to give any conception that we just came out the gate, you know, having nailed it because we didn't. But what I've found over the last 12 months, maybe, is that just by being me and just by showing up in the way that I show up, people are either going to buy into it and or they're not. And by not chasing people that don't buy into it, you save a lot of time and a lot of energy, and you can just kind of move on to the people that do. And those are not big numbers. But I saw a stat somewhere once that said um marketing agencies need about 20 clients to be like successful, to be like a million-pound company. Again, success is a relative term, right? If you think about it as 20 clients, there's 415,000 professional services companies in the UK. And so there's some hope in there that you will eventually find the people that you need to find. And I think if you can balance the cash demands with that, then you're you have a bit more like fight. But the challenge is always how do you balance what's in the bank account with the idea that you might have to suck it up and work for someone who's a deck. Or if you want to stick to your guns, you know, how comfortable are you sort of just stripping your life down to like that sort of beans and rice diet? Um, my answer to that question usually depends on my mood. Sometimes I'll I'm like, yeah, I'll eat beans and rice for a week. I don't give a shit. And then other times I'm like, actually, I'd I'd just like to go out and buy a 24-pack of Pepsi. You know, so I think it depends.

Zoe Greenhalf: 41:35

Off the top of your head, who would some of your dream clients be right now?

Storm Mackay: 41:39

Oh, see, I would love to work with Pepsi. Um, because I think Pepsi has a great product. Kill me for this. People do, but I love Pepsi. Um, and I love the cream soda Pepsi and and all of that stuff. I'm a big Pepsi nerd. I think they just keep losing their way with their advertising, and I think they need someone who's invested in the product to come in and be like, we just need to hold the fucking line. We need to pick something that's gonna divide the room, not try to be Coke, because we keep trying to be fucking Coke, and and just hold the line. Dr. Pepper is the best example of that. That tastes that stuff tastes so weird, but they're completely, completely unapologetic about it.

Zoe Greenhalf: 42:27

Yes.

Storm Mackay: 42:27

They really lean into that, and that's what makes them different. But I couldn't tell you what makes Pepsi different from Coke other than the flavor. And you're never gonna win over someone who likes Coke to Team Pepsi, right? So there's a thing around like category expansion. How do we get more people drinking Pepsi? I would love to take that on.

Zoe Greenhalf: 42:44

I do feel like so much of what you've talked about today, though, is applicable not just to brands and businesses, but also to people. I mean, I know we live in an age where everybody's telling us you need a personal brand. Um, you know, you need to create this online presence, but like just on a very basic human level, you know, not selling yourself to fit into a box and being bold enough to divide the room and be like, this is who I am. Are you gonna accept me for that? Or are you gonna try and make me fit into whatever you want me to be?

Storm Mackay: 43:21

Yeah, take it or leave it. It's hard to get to that point. And I think that that's one thing that I think gets lost a lot when you have these conversations with people is like you and I are talking after me having an entire lifetime essentially of refining this and figuring out what this means and gaining friends and losing friends and gaining partners and losing partners and and going through that whole thing. Like, you know, I think if you and I had spoken like three years ago, I would probably be less bullish about this. Um, but now I'm like, yeah, fuck it, take a relief. I don't give a shit. Um but it takes a I I sort of hate when you like listen to podcasts and people are like talking about how the importance and power of being yourself. They never talk about how much that sucks at some point or the other or another, you know, where you you knock up heads with people or you have a falling out with someone, or like you don't land a client that you really wanted because you talk a particular way. As you know, I swear like a trooper, right? This is fine sometimes, sometimes it's not. Um but I think that if you can kind of push through and figure out what that means for you, and then like I always say, just try to hold the line. You I think you do come out better off, but it's not a fun process. It's not like going to a bathhouse, coming out feeling all refreshed, you know. I think you come out sort of a little bit beaten up and with some basil scars and maybe a little bit more like cynical, but find it, you know, I I think that it's still worth it in the in the long term.

Zoe Greenhalf: 44:58

Yeah. And do you think that the attitude that you have now comes purely from experience, from lived experience? Or have you always been a bit like, this is who I am? Fuck it, like I'm just gonna show myself for who I am. How how difficult has it been?

Storm Mackay: 45:17

I'm definitely better at it now that I'm older, for sure. Yeah. Um but that said, I like I said before, I I grew up listening to punk and metal, and you know, so much of that stuff is like outsider art. And even now, a lot of the books I read or films that I watch are based on things like outsider art, and they're different perspectives by different people, and you trying to sort of seek that out helps you find that community, I think, that makes you a bit better at being yourself, if that makes some kind of sense. Yeah. Makes you feel a bit bolder and a bit braver because you know that there are other people. If you do stand out, if you are like quite distinctive looking in the way that I am, you kind of get used to it. You kind of need to get used to it. Um or you just end up, you know, dressing like everyone else, and and that's kind of boring.

Zoe Greenhalf: 46:11

Do you think then that that's something integral to who you are and what you do? Is that in the way that you dress, in the way that you express yourself, in the way that you do business, it's very much um just wanting to be distinctive. Is that like a common thread?

Storm Mackay: 46:29

I think there's a so there's a bit of like a crossover there. I don't know if for me as a person, if I necessarily want to be distinctive. I think I've just ended up in this situation where that just happens to be the things that I like. Yeah. Um and again, that's because of that sort of growing up alternative, that outsider art thing. You attach to the things that you really like. And it's just so happened that, you know, I've ended up in a suburb where I'm the one that sticks out like a sore thumb. In terms of business, there's so there's just data and science that back that up. In a way, I think that's just made easier by the fact that I look and am quite distinctive as a personality. Yeah. Um but those things sort of do they they work together in a way that's not at all deliberate. Um, but you know, you you kind of I don't know, you are who you are, but then sometimes when you need to make a big decision, you're like, well, at least the Ehrenberg Bass Institute's got my back. You know, people might think that mascots are for children. That's fine, those people are allowed to be wrong because I've got the science to back it up. But when it comes to my tattoos and stuff, uh that's really just about finding the things that I really, really like and really enjoying tattooing as an art form.

Zoe Greenhalf: 47:44

I suppose the only other thing really is thinking about the listeners going away from this episode, um, would you have any advice in terms of building their own Soba style life? You know, one that helps them break the rules rather than trying to follow them.

Storm Mackay: 48:03

Yeah, delete your social media accounts. All of them. Makes you feel weird and twitchy for about two weeks, but after that, like, and I'm being genuine. I I have LinkedIn because I have to have LinkedIn. It's a sort of weird credibility builder thing, right? People check out the business, they check out LinkedIn. But I don't have social I don't have TikTok, I don't have Instagram, I don't have Facebook, I don't have any of the other ones. I'm getting old, I don't know if that's still all of them or not. Um and it is the most freeing and most liberating thing ever because all of a sudden you just you you stop, and I'm especially bad for this, but like you stop comparing yourself with other people and you stop kind of buying into that bullshit of like everyone's super successful or whatever, or you stop kind of looking at the super ripped dudes being like, oh damn, why am why am I not like that? Or you stop, you know, because they're all on fucking steroids, or they've all been training for 20 years and they've just made their big debut on social. Like there's so many things that you don't see that go into those cultivated sort of images and lifestyles. And I think that if you can get away from that, at least in my experience, it means you can just enjoy yourself a whole lot more. And the other thing is, is this sounds kind of crushing, but it's not meant that way. No one's paying as much attention to you as you are.

Zoe Greenhalf: 49:28

Yeah.

Storm Mackay: 49:29

Um, and look, I live in Glasgow, not in not in England, right? But Glasgow is a very liberal city in the sense that broadly speaking, unless you're cutting about like a ranges or a saltick hoodie, no one really gives a shit about how you're dressed um or or what you're doing. So like I definitely, you know, if I was living in Tennessee, I might be saying saying something different, right? Um But you know, with those things in mind, remember that no one pays as much attention to you as you pay to yourself. Um, and get off social media, give it a few weeks, and you'll be so much happier for it because consciously or or not, you're definitely like comparing yourself to what other people are doing. And it's almost all bullshit.

Zoe Greenhalf: 50:19

Yeah. Um, Storm, thank you so much for sharing your story and giving me a bit of an insight into your business and how shit it was at the beginning.

Storm Mackay: 50:33

I know that's the bit you're not supposed to say out loud, but I think it's important that people know.

Zoe Greenhalf: 50:37

No, I love that. Like genuinely, I'm laughing, but I actually love your honesty. I'm not here for the glossy um rags to riches tale. I want to know, and so do the listeners. What does it actually look like to design that life that makes you feel alive? And you know, you did it in a really difficult way because you just threw yourself into your business.

Storm Mackay: 51:02

Yeah, not recommended.

Zoe Greenhalf: 51:03

Had to just make it work. Yeah, you didn't recommend it. So don't everybody go out and quit your job tomorrow. Um, it's just another way. It's just one way that you've done things, but it's all interesting because off the back of that, now you do have this incredible agency, it's distinctive, it allows you to have the life that you want to have, albeit if even though you have to work sometimes. Um, but it's it's it's genuinely interesting um to hear how that's gone for you.

Storm Mackay: 51:41

Well, thank you so much. I think this is probably the most um vulnerable interview I've I've I've ever done. Usually people just want to know about marketing stuff. So talking about myself was weird.

Zoe Greenhalf: 51:51

Oh, I don't like marketing. Can I say that?

Storm Mackay: 51:53

Yeah, you can. I fucking hate it. I fell into it. I should have been an astronaut, but marketing was was not where I saw my.

Zoe Greenhalf: 52:01

Maybe next time, huh? We covered a lot of ground there. So if you want my recap, here we are. Number one, if you want to stand out, you need to split the room or divide opinion. Number two, if you're considering starting a business, especially if you have a bank of experience in the same field, ask yourself, what's the worst that could happen? If it doesn't work, you can probably go back to getting a job. Number three, you don't have to be an extrovert to run a business, but it helps if you have a network you can tap into and a strong brand to position yourself as the best choice in your customer's mind. Number four, starting a business can be scary and make you grow up a lot, but it can also be fun and interesting if you're willing to suck at it in the beginning. Number five, you don't have to appeal to everyone, but have a strong enough presence to attract the key five percent who get you. Number six, if you're looking for a new job, how can you be creative about getting in front of the right people or expanding your network in that field? Don't forget to look beyond LinkedIn and think creatively. Number seven, no just means no. It's not necessarily personal. And if you can learn to deal with rejections, you're better equipped for asking again, taking more risks and looking elsewhere. And number eight, if you lean into the things you enjoy, you will naturally find your tribe. Huge thanks to Storm Mackay for showing us how to break the mould, lead with authenticity, and build a life and business that fits who you truly are, not who anyone says you should be. Remember, the rules you're following aren't set in stone. Some were made for someone else's life. The challenge is simple. Pick one expectation, norm, or rule that you've been living by default and imagine breaking it this week. See what happens when you give yourself permission to play, to rebel, and design life your way. That's a wrap on another episode of the Mischief Movement Podcast. If today's content stirred something in you, let's keep in touch on Instagram or connect with me on LinkedIn. You can even click the link in the show notes to sign up to my Mischief Mail newsletter, where you'll get exclusive insights on upcoming episodes and your chance to submit questions to future guests. But shh, don't tell anyone, it's our secret. For more info on ways to work with me and some fun free resources, check out the website themischiefmovement.com. Until next time, stay bold, stay rebellious, and of course, keep making mischief.