Ep.77 SWITCHTRACK: Clay Lowe on Life's Third Act And Finding Your Soul-Aligned Path

What happens when life brings you full circle? In this revealing conversation with returning guest Clay Lowe, we explore the natural cycles that can lead us back to our original passions—but with decades of hard-won wisdom to guide the way.

Clay shares how after 30 years in the learning and development space, he's returned to his roots of combining personal transformation with coaching. His journey began with "Personal Growth Adventures," using outdoor experiences to catalyse profound change in people's lives, before corporate demands pulled him toward leadership development and team building. Now, as he enters what he calls "Act Three" of life, he's reconnecting with his original mission—but with a renewed focus on helping "intelligent misfits" who followed conventional paths but never quite felt they belonged.

This conversation digs deep into mortality as a motivator, the challenges of creating meaningful signal amidst the noise of the personal development industry, and the wisdom of starting with tiny actions when making big changes. Clay's refreshing honesty about confronting his finite time provides a powerful wake-up call for anyone postponing their dreams. "Five minutes is better than no minutes," he reminds us, offering practical wisdom for those feeling trapped by busy schedules or overwhelm.

Whether you're standing at a crossroads, contemplating your own legacy, or simply curious about how our callings evolve throughout life's seasons, Clay's journey demonstrates how sometimes the most aligned path leads us back to where we started—but with deeper purpose and clearer vision. Ready to explore what might be calling you back? Listen now and consider what wheel might be turning in your own life.

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome to Switch Track Mini-Series
• 1:18 Reconnecting with Clay Lowe
• 3:56 Cycling Back to Personal Growth
• 9:50 Entering Life's Third Act
• 14:30 Finding Time in a Busy World
• 20:50 Advice for Those Seeking Change
• 23:54 Connect and Episode Closing

Transcript

Zoe Greenhalf: 0:00

Welcome to Switch Track, a summer mini-series brought to you by the Mischief Movement podcast. These are the real-life stories of rebels who changed direction by choice or by force, and found freedom on the other side, because sometimes life plays a tune that doesn't quite fit and the most powerful thing you can do is flip the track entirely. I'm your host, zoe Greenhalgh, disruptive coach, mindset mentor and mischievous guide for quiet rebels and unconventional humans who are done settling and ready to redesign a life that actually fits. In this series we're catching up with past guests who've dared to pivot, disrupt and create something more aligned to who they really are Short, snappy and full of insight. Each episode is a reminder that you're allowed to change, to evolve and to burn the old script if it doesn't serve you anymore. So whether you're standing at a crossroads, itching for more or quietly plotting your next move, this series is for you.

Zoe Greenhalf: 1:15

Let's jump into today's SwitchTrack story. So back with another episode for this mini series, the Switchtrack Summer Series of the podcast, where we're revisiting some of the Mischief Movement podcast former guests to find out what's been happening since we last spoke. So this time I'm back with Clay Clay Lowe, and we last recorded on episode 21. So if anybody wants to go back and listen to the original episode, I'll put a link in the show notes. But, clay, it's lovely to have you back.

Clay Lowe: 1:56

Thanks for having me back.

Zoe Greenhalf: 1:58

You well.

Clay Lowe: 1:59

Yeah, oh, it's good to be back again.

Zoe Greenhalf: 2:02

Cool, so a bit of time has passed since we last recorded. Could you just remind us where were you in life the last time that we spoke?

Clay Lowe: 2:15

I think you know you found me in a space of you know we're talking about sort of the personal growth and the whole sort of spiritual side of personal growth and the like. So you know you likely have found me um in that kind of space, I suspect.

Zoe Greenhalf: 2:33

Yeah yeah, I think one of the one of the ways I described you on the introduction was um a trainer in terms of like the learning and development space as well. I remember I remember talking about that. So what's actually changed since we last caught up?

Clay Lowe: 2:56

yeah. So I think, looking at that side of things, yeah, you know, my life for the past 30 years has been as a learning and development consultant, guru, trainer, facilitator. So I've been in the learning and development space for 30 years now, probably something along those lines. And as I was thinking about this podcast, I was thinking it's actually, you know, we talk about everything being cycles. So I've kind of cycled through almost back to and I'll say start but not start as in I'm at the brand new beginning.

Clay Lowe: 3:36

But so when I started on my own, when I left corporate life for good 20 some ideas ago, the company that I started was called personal growth adventures and it focused on having these outdoor experiences. So it was a venture coach and essentially it was like people who want to make the shift from corporate life, kind of break out of that space, wanting to do something real with their life, and it was combining coaching and the outdoors as a means of transformation. And the genesis behind it is I did an adventure race and we did this race. It was like 10 days long, all the teams were corporate teams, but I watched all these transformations happen and I was just at the beginning of my coaching journey and I was like well, there was no coaching intervention, yet massive transformation happened.

Clay Lowe: 4:34

Lots of people that I kept in touch with realized that there was more to life than just doing the nine to five thing and a lot of people just quit their job, and that was without any coaching intervention.

Clay Lowe: 4:45

So I had the idea that that you know how much more powerful would that transformation be if you had the outdoor experience, like climbing a mountain or doing a long hike, and in combination with coaching, where you're having a deliberate conversation and, um, internal journey aspect. So it was internal journey, external journey. So that was that. And then, because I was very much at the start of things, I think I did a team building thing for a company, but then, because of my background in the military, there was this draw to you know, can you come in and work with our team, can you work with our leaders, can you help us with culture change? So I ended up doing a lot of corporate work in that and in addition to continuing to do the sort of personal side as well. And because I guess the way I look at it is this is that even in business and corporate, it's people, isn't it?

Zoe Greenhalf: 5:47

So everything that I do is people oriented.

Clay Lowe: 5:49

So it doesn't matter the environment that you're in, because the issues are still the same, because you're a human, you're just having the problems in a different environment, but it's fundamentally the same thing different environment and, but it's fundamentally the same thing. So where I find myself at now? Um, because I do travel around a lot and do a lot of, you know, on-site stuff, you know, and I do stuff nationally, internationally, all that kind of stuff, um, but I've moved cycles as an individual, moving into grandpa hood. So you know, I'm in, I'm in what I call um, if, if you're thinking of life as a, I mean I'm just at the start of act three.

Clay Lowe: 6:32

So, this is that time you're starting to think about your personal legacy. What am I leaving behind? What are the things that you know? How am I going to show that I didn't just come here and waste oxygen? Basically?

Zoe Greenhalf: 6:46

Oh, my goodness me, as if you have.

Clay Lowe: 6:48

It's how do you give back? So now I'm at that stage. It's how do you give back? So now I'm at that stage. And so that's what's kind of led me back here in us having this conversation is starting to put more emphasis on some more of the personal journeys, working with some people that are, I guess, in this turn of the wheel for themselves, where it's like, okay, well, if I was classifying it, you know, intelligent misfits essentially. But I think there's a couple of paths that we may have taken one being like me, which kind of left corporate and just kind of did my own thing and kind of, you know, did that route.

Clay Lowe: 7:27

And others who stayed in, still misfits, but never felt like they quite fit in and probably do things a little bit different. But they stayed in because offits but never felt like they quite fit in and probably do things a little bit different. But they stayed in because of a variety of reasons, whether you know, disability, family, any of those things. But now they're at that point where I've given a lot to the sort of the status quo kind of life, um, the one that we were sold when we were kids, and so they're like you know when now?

Clay Lowe: 7:53

Now can I get my life back? Um, it's time for me to start reconnecting with the path that I may have diverged from that I was headed to. Yeah, um, or actually I bought the society line of get a good job, get married, have kids, buy the house, buy the two cars, have the white picket. For you know that, that fairy tale life I bought. And then if you just keep your nose clean and do the thing, then life works out. You can retire and go off and we've all had that one your twilight years, um and then.

Clay Lowe: 8:28

But so people that I'm finding myself working with now it's like, well, I swallowed that pill, it didn't turn out quite how I thought it was going to be, and so maybe find themselves in that transition point of there's definitely got to be more to life than that, and at some point in time I had the taste for it, lost it for a whole host of reasons, and now I want to get back to that space of life, of purpose and meaning. I think yeah.

Zoe Greenhalf: 8:57

So it actually sounds like yours is less of a pivot and, in terms of where you began and as you mentioned to me before we started recording, it's more like returning in a cycle to the kind of um, the kind of way that you wanted to work when you first began on your coaching journey. Would that be fair to say? It's more absolutely so.

Clay Lowe: 9:27

The cycle is the turning of the wheel, isn't it?

Zoe Greenhalf: 9:29

it's yeah okay, that's interesting. Yeah, I think. So it's not a direct, you know.

Clay Lowe: 9:35

It's not 180 to give. Yeah, yeah, you know what Not? A wild term and all this sort of stuff. I'm going to go now be a Silicon Valley tycoon.

Zoe Greenhalf: 9:45

So it's not a complete no, but there's something so wonderful about starting a journey in one place, exploring it in another, but then also realizing that you kind of want to go back to where you started from, or at least rediscover that part and turn that into the next chapter.

Clay Lowe: 10:07

Yeah.

Zoe Greenhalf: 10:09

The change is still there.

Clay Lowe: 10:10

Having collected up some wisdom walking along that path. Now I'm back at a place, and I guess it just coincides with my life cycle shift as well, so it's almost a natural evolution. To well, it mimics the rhythm of life. As in, we do the same in life you go down the path, learn some things. Now you want to share whatever it is that you've experienced.

Zoe Greenhalf: 10:36

Learn to the sort of next generation, or it's this and I think paulo coelho talks about this concept of the personal legacy which a personal legacy that you want to leave so, in terms of where you're at now, like what kind of challenges are you facing as you lean more into this kind of soul aligned path and maybe less into a leadership and development space that you've been so familiar with over the last 20 years?

Clay Lowe: 11:09

Yeah, I think the challenge is and this is what most people will be finding anybody that's doing any kind of uh, independent work or doing their sort of side hustle or whatever. What you're finding is that, um, there's a great migration of people wanting to come out of this sort of toe in the line and doing the standard life. So there's a lot of noise. I guess is a short way to say there's a lot of noise. Yeah, there's just so many people in the space that it probably could be overwhelming for someone stepping in.

Clay Lowe: 11:46

So, in all the noise, how do you create the right signal so that you can reach the right person? Messages, because it is such a noisy environment. So that's probably the biggest challenge, and it's all about people's learning ability, adaptability, change and all those sorts of things. So the when I coach someone in corporate, when I coach someone personally, it's the same tool set that I'm using, and I would even argue that not even using them differently at all, because if you're stuck, you're stuck and no amount of dressing it up with different kind of language or corporate speak doesn't matter. You're not going to change until you get unstuck, and nine times out of ten it's an internal thing that has that person stuck, and then, once you undo that, everything else becomes easy.

Zoe Greenhalf: 12:50

Has anything surprised you about, I want to say, life on the other side of this change? But you're kind of going through this still, aren't you? Is there anything that's kind of surprising you or anything that's become obvious since you've made the decision to work with people in this way, rather than dedicating yourself solely to a corporate space?

Clay Lowe: 13:17

I think maybe, as I was saying to you before we started recording, I'm looking at this third act and I posted a thing on Instagram that Eddie Murphy was saying you got 75, birthday 75. When I look at that number 75, I don't have that many more. So, okay, if there's some things that I wanted to get done, now is the time to definitely get it done. And here's the big thing and maybe this is what's driving a lot of it is you know, your company tells you you've got to be in this space, you've got to go in this workshop, you've got to do this teaming, you've got to do this thing, and mostly, once people get there, know they're into it, but then they're also distracted by the fact that this day that I'm here doing this thing, while valuable, I know there's 100, 200 emails that's going to be waiting for me yeah when I get back.

Clay Lowe: 14:13

So everybody's under this time pressure.

Clay Lowe: 14:16

We love to have more opportunity to do that, so they probably wouldn't be in the room if they weren't told to be in the room yeah, I guess the space that I'm trying to create now is is working with someone who's decided to be in the room, not someone who's being told you've got to be in the room and both sets of people learn something. But I'm after that person who's like you know, I want to go into the room. Um, is there something out there that I can engage with in this way, versus, hey, you need to be here on this day and do this thing and companies are just under a lot of pressure. I think there's a lot of um managers and leaders out there who recognize, you know, there's a whole realm of stuff of mental health, looking after people's well-being, the whole realm of stuff of mental health looking after people's wellbeing, the whole sort of wellbeing culture in a lot of companies. So you know, companies get it, but there's also the big time pressure. So they want to do that thing and provide that kind of space for people to work on not only their professional development but their personal development too. But the kind of time pressure that they are under, it's just a disconnect there. So I want to do this, I want to innovate, I want to provide this space for people's personal development, but it's such a heavy demand in the workspace in terms of what I've got to do. How do you create the space to do it when you're right in the middle of trying to produce stuff and deliver things and all that?

Clay Lowe: 15:47

I think people find the same thing in their personal life. I mean, if you're, you know you're working in your job and you've got to do your job. And then if you've got a family, then you've got to tend to your family and you start looking at the clock. You know there's only 24 hours in the day. When I've given up, 12 hours of the day has been at work. Then I've got an hour commute, so there's another hour gone. Then I come home and then you know I don't have to. You know I've got to tend to the kids, tend to the partner and before you know it it's nine, 10 o'clock at night, so I got a half hour to myself.

Clay Lowe: 16:28

If you're trying to make a change, if you're trying to do stuff, suddenly you find yourself with very short space and time to do that. Everybody has demands on your time and the only way that I survived that when I was still in this sort of corporate side and luckily I'm a morning person I just started getting up at 4 am and then I had from 4 am to 7 was clay time, because nobody wants anything from you at 4 am Nobody. So I had all that time to myself. But what it did was because I I had that clay time, then it didn't matter. The rest of the day everybody can have their piece of me because I've had my time so and. But I know that doesn't work for everybody and I just happen to be a person that doesn't need a lot of sleep it's great if you can factor that in.

Zoe Greenhalf: 17:14

Absolutely it doesn't work for new moms with little babies or young kids that don't sleep.

Clay Lowe: 17:20

But if you can and if you need your eight hours of sleep Some people need lots. I mean I only need four hours, so it works for me.

Zoe Greenhalf: 17:28

But just to kind of bring you back to this sense of if you've made this decision that rather than concentrate your efforts in a corporate space, rather than concentrate your efforts in a corporate space, you would prefer to be coaching in a way that feels very soul aligned and very sort of wholesome, and maybe more sort of spiritual and reconnecting with where you started from. Since you've made that decision, have you had any kind of is it? Have you had any kind of big moments of clarity or or surprises, or just, I don't know, happy accidents or well, I want to say coincidences, because maybe they're not coincidences.

Zoe Greenhalf: 18:11

Do you know what I mean. Have there been any kind of things that made you go? Do you know what? This just shows me? That I'm exactly on the right path.

Clay Lowe: 18:19

I suppose a big, the big, big, big light but I've already touched on it already is just the realization that I am in act three. I mean, if there's, you know, there's your, there's my motivation, it's act three now, dude. So anything you have planned on doing, you need to get it, get it done. Um, and so, yeah, that's, that's, that's been the biggest piece is there's no, you know, I'm not a young 20 something, I'm not in my 30s, I'm not in my 40s. So you know, um, yeah, the third act is a bitch.

Zoe Greenhalf: 19:01

It's what you make of it. It's what you make of it. I think for you it's going to be amazing.

Clay Lowe: 19:05

I'm not going to be able to not have the same end as everybody. Everybody's going to die. And so my third act, that's the end. There's no top of the mountain, nothing, there's just. I'm finished in another you know, make it 30. This is the thing, once while that you wanted to know the light bulb moment or the big thing that's it, realizing that you know your mortality is staring right.

Clay Lowe: 19:35

It's always been that I know, mostly because you're when we're young. You just think you're going to live forever, don't you so? But now, being right there at that space, staring at um that place, yeah well, that's a kick up the ass, isn't it?

Zoe Greenhalf: 19:50

well, yeah, well this.

Clay Lowe: 19:51

You know, if I find myself wanting to be lazy or not do something, it's like okay, well, you know yeah, one of my other guests, uh, mickey james.

Zoe Greenhalf: 20:02

She lives by the motto life is finite. I think she even had it tattooed on herself just to keep that reminder there constantly. You know you're playing a game and at some point the game is going to end. What are you going to do with that time that you've got, which I just think is?

Clay Lowe: 20:18

the time between the dashes is how I always looked at it, you know. So what's that? Yeah can it look like, and nobody knows how long they have anyway. So almost you wanted to be living that way your whole life. But you know this you just get sucked up with everybody else and you just so.

Zoe Greenhalf: 20:36

On that note let me, um, let me wrap this up and ask you what would you say to someone now who knows deep down that they need a change, but they just feel stuck or too scared?

Clay Lowe: 20:51

um, the big thing that I would say to folks is that you've got to make a true decision and you gotta, you know, otherwise you'll just stay stuck. You'll have all the logical reasons everything will be every year but you've got to make the true decision and then, however scary that is in terms of taking that first step, just take the step. And I think the biggest thing I say to people is everyone makes the thing big, and so because it's big and it becomes overwhelming, and then I don't make a change, I don't start. It can be the smallest of things. If you want to spend five minutes reading, read for five minutes, that's enough. And then be done a bit and be happy with the five minutes that you spend, because we can put pressure on ourselves and say oh, I should be doing more, more, more, more, more, um, five, more, more. Five minutes is nothing, but actually five minutes is better than no minutes. So do the five, be happy, celebrate the five minutes, and it might take you longer to get where you want to go, but at least you'll get there. But if you don't do anything, then you'll never get there. So that's what I would say.

Clay Lowe: 21:59

I would say just start where you are, you don't do anything, then you'll never get there, and so that's what I would say. I would say just start where you are. You don't need another course, another nothing. You need nothing. You start with what you have where you are, and it can be the smallest of things.

Clay Lowe: 22:12

Don't make a huge, big, giant change that you have to make. If you don't have the space to do that and I suppose that just takes being radically honest with yourself you don't have the space and time to do it, but don't do nothing. So don't tell yourself the big myth of I don't have time to do it. Actually, really have an honest conversation that says well, actually, you know what? I've got five minutes between the walk from here to there. Well, there's your five minutes. Use that five minutes, be happy with that five minutes, celebrate that five minutes and just do that consistently until you get more time and expand from there. So start Anybody listening to this? Start, start now, right where you are, right as soon as you as you finish, listen as you hit. Stop on this thing start.

Zoe Greenhalf: 23:07

That's it, good advice done. Thank you, mic drops done oh, thanks so much, clay, for coming back and sharing more of your story and more of your wisdom. Um, where can people connect with you?

Clay Lowe: 23:23

soulcruisercom, and that's cruiser, as in c-r-u-z-e-r. Soulcruisercom. Um, that's the website and any social media you go on. If you look up at soulcruves, I have everything. So wherever you hang out, you can find me. I'm there, awesome, so yes.

Zoe Greenhalf: 23:44

Oh, thank you so much.

Clay Lowe: 23:47

No, thank you, Appreciate it, go mischief.

Zoe Greenhalf: 23:54

Thank you for listening to this summer miniseries. If you're already feeling that itch to pivot, or even just to pause and rethink, this is your reminder that you don't have to do it alone. Whether you're craving clarity, courage or just someone to say you're not crazy for wanting more, I'm here for that. You can book a free call with me using the link in the show notes. No pressure, no expectation, just space to explore what's next for you. So stay rebellious, keep making mischief and meet me back here next week for another episode of Switch Track, because changing course might just be the most powerful move you make you.