Stories and Sisterhood: Michelle Hands and the Rise of 'She Who Dares Wins'

Ever found yourself cheering for the underdog, secretly hoping they shatter expectations and emerge victorious? That's precisely the spirit Michelle Hands embodies, and in our lively discussion, we unearth the heart and soul behind her brand She Who Dares Wins. Join us as Michelle lays bare her journey from navigating 17 years in the construction world to sparking a movement that empowers women to defy the odds and embrace their dreams. Hers is an inspiring tale of how an Instagram page blossomed into a symbol of boldness and will leave you ready to conquer your own Everest!

Imagine finding fulfilment after embracing your quirks and missteps; it's what happened to both Michelle and myself. Our chat meanders through the mischievous corners of early career blunders, the revelation of hidden strengths, and the sheer gravity of stepping out of comfort zones. As she recounts her leap into the unknown waters of film school, we celebrate the growth that blooms from our imperfections and the unexpected success stories that can define our personal and professional lives.

To wrap things up, we dive into the transformative world of storytelling and its profound impact on empowering women. Our stories are shared not just as a testament to personal resilience but as a beacon for all women in fields where their presence is scarce. Weaving through family support, strategic content creation, and the sheer joy of connecting with others, Michelle and I champion the idea that every story matters. And perhaps, amidst the laughter and revelations, you'll find a spark to begin rewriting yours...

Chapters

• 0:00 Empowering Women Through Storytelling and Merch
• 10:55 From Shyness to Success
• 16:12 Women Empowerment in Construction Industry
• 20:06 Dreaming, Imperfections, and Documentary Filmmaking
• 32:10 Finding strength in tough times and what the future holds

Transcript

Michelle Hands: 0:00

Yeah, it's taken a long time to come to that because I think when I was in my 20s I'd be like, oh, I've got loads of flaws. You shouldn't, you shouldn't, you know? Know me as anything other than you know flawed. And Now I'm starting to realise those imperfections are pretty cool.

Zoe Greenhalf: 0:19

Hello, it's Zoe coach, creator and mischief maker behind the mischief movement podcast, your weekly Inspo for people looking for more hell yeah in their life. I'm on a mission to help you rediscover that rebellious streak, find your confident inner badass and stop holding yourself back from the amazing life you've been dreaming of. Join me each week as I discuss mindset, share stories or develop strategies sometimes alone, but most often through interviewing adventurous, unconventional guests who are shaking up the status quo, living life on their terms and impacting the world by doing things differently. Not long ago, I woke up one day and thought this isn't the life I'd imagined for myself. I felt disconnected and unfulfilled, but I set my intention firmly on adding more fun, getting out of my comfort zone and becoming curious about what truly lit me up. And then magical things started to happen, including this podcast. As that famous quote goes, "she remembered who she was and the game changed. I've always loved the word mischief because it's cheeky, playful and a little bit rebellious, and that's exactly what I hope this podcast brings to the table. Let's rewrite the rules, throw two fingers up to society and do more of the things we love. So I'm here to empower you to boldly rebel against the ordinary and Support you as you design a life you don't want to escape from. If you feel called to activate your own adventure and make Unconventional your new normal, I dare you to jump in with me.

Zoe Greenhalf: 1:57

Well, how can I describe this gem of an episode? I don't even know where to begin. What have Plumbing, chemicals, petrol stations, film, school fashion and empowering women through Storytelling all going common? No, well, the answer is this week's incredible guest, michelle Hans, found of the badass brand she who dares wins, which, at the moment, is a podcast, a line of clothing and a series of documentaries that showcase the amazing stories of Women around the world leading from the front and going after their dreams. If you've ever been called a dreamer, or if you're worried you don't have the confidence or you feel too much like an underdog to pursue your ideas, or maybe you're simply curious about what it takes to design a life around the things you love, keep listening, because you're definitely gonna want to save this one and listen to it again. Well, this week I'm joined by Michelle Hans, founder of she who dares wins. Do you want to tell everybody what your mischief is and what she who dares wins is all about?

Michelle Hands: 3:02

Yeah, so I Guess it's about. I mean that there's a long story behind it, but ultimately it's on night, you know you can. Okay, that's right, if you want to let's go a little bit long, then.

Michelle Hands: 3:14

So I, 17 years in construction, and Looking around not really realizing, until a lot of my friends like, dude, what you're experiencing is not normal. And I was like, okay, there's not many women on site. So I started to share that story of like the crazy stuff that was happening to me on Instagram, as as we all do, and at the time it was called this is a man's world and it grew quite a really big community of women, not just in construction, but you know, the trades where it was male dominated and and people were kind of loving the honesty that I had regarding what was happening on site etc. And Then, halfway through one particular job that was quite Hard someone said to me you know, why do you still do this? And I was like, wow, she dares wins. And actually I was a huge.

Michelle Hands: 4:06

I still am a fan of only fours and horses. So I think that's kind of where he is rodders and I very much have the underdog like I think he's the male version of me, brian, the female version of him, that underdog always trying new things. So I was like, you know, I'm gonna change everything to shoot as wins. And now it's become less about me and my story and more about Kind of daring women to win, because I think the one thing that I realized every time I was like, well, how did I get through these Experiences and stuff that I've done? And it's just turning up and daring to win. So I now kind of want to encourage a lot of other women Through trying to empower them and inspire them by other women's stories as well and go against the grade a little bit, like it's a little bit of a badass brand, like you know it's not a little bit, it really is, it really is.

Zoe Greenhalf: 5:01

And I have to say that when I told my community that I was speaking to you this evening I don't know if you saw one of the comments that came in it was like I don't have a question for it, but I just wanted to know that her t-shirts and her stuff is awesome.

Michelle Hands: 5:16

Yeah, well, I agree that the the merch side of things really happened during COVID and Was never really meant to be a thing. But I was, like you know, I've always kind of sick of growing up wanting to buy the guys clothes with the cool designs on, and I Still, to this day, don't think there are many brands out there that you know, we're always the second thought. So I was like you know what, I'm gonna put my money behind it, do a few cool designs that kind of have the same message I want to portray with the brand of the community and kind of, and go from there. But yeah, it's, it's. It's kind of looking at the wild side of of your personality and letting that loose.

Zoe Greenhalf: 5:53

I love the wild side. That's brilliant.

Michelle Hands: 5:56

Yeah.

Zoe Greenhalf: 5:58

And how do you feel when you wear your own stuff? Does it make you feel empowered? Not just because of the slogan, but to think this is pretty bad ass in itself really.

Michelle Hands: 6:07

Yeah, definitely, and sometimes I don't even Remember and people will be like, oh, which really cool is when someone's like, oh, I like your top and you're like, oh, it's mine, and they're like, yeah, I know it's yours, you're wearing it. I'm like, oh, no, no, it's like my brand, and then that whole story comes out. So yeah, it is, it is cool. I'm yet to With I've sold over. I think I've had up to days. There's over 4,000 people have ordered from me and I've yet to see someone, which I know is Happen. And yeah, when that happens, that'll be, yeah, an absolute game changer.

Zoe Greenhalf: 6:41

So yeah, but will you go up to them and tell them and be like, oh my god, I designed that and I'm so excited to see you wearing it?

Michelle Hands: 6:49

Yeah, I want a selfie and everything and I'd probably give them here. Here we go. There's an exclusive here for anyone's listening that has some of my merch. I will probably give them. Here we go. I'll give them a hundred pound gift card to spend on the shop.

Zoe Greenhalf: 7:01

Oh my god, that's such a cool exclusive. I Hope everybody goes and puts this stuff on.

Michelle Hands: 7:09

Yeah, I hope some people in leads are just like right, it's going fine, michelle, I'm incredible and so like.

Zoe Greenhalf: 7:14

When you started it was just an. It was an Instagram page. Yeah, did you have sort of grand aspirations to turn it into merch, or was that something that just kind of evolved out of the engagement that you were getting From your audience and stuff? How did it come about?

Michelle Hands: 7:30

I think I've always. I've always been like, even as a kid, like a dream. I've always been sketching ideas and thinking about business and I've always been in business. Since the age of 21 I've had like quite a few businesses, but they've been not all in the creative or kind of like fashion side of things.

Zoe Greenhalf: 7:47

Oh they, I'm just curious.

Michelle Hands: 7:48

Yeah. So I had a bit like breaking bad when I as in construction and then I came out of construction and Well before construction there was film school, wanted to basically Be an actress and then decided that wasn't for me but still love the process of making films, which is how the kind of YouTube side of things Took place when I was actually working in construction. But I took a break from construction for about two or three years to so random. But I ran a plumbing chemical company so we made plumbing chemicals that go into your boiler with my brother and we literally made this chemical in our garage and we realized that these two companies that had the monopoly on the UK market were charging an insane amount of money for a chemical that could be made for pennies, and so we just decided to try and crack it. So I was, for a small period of time, cold sales woman on the running up and down the country going into plumbers merchants just trying to sell this chemical, and it was awesome. It was the greatest experience and something that I look back on really fondly because it gave me so many tools now you know, rocking up and trying to sell something to someone that doesn't want to be sold to and in a male dominated environment. So, yeah, that was one business and then that kind of led as well.

Michelle Hands: 9:16

When in commerce was just kicking off, we decided to kind of sell nuts and bolts on an e-commerce website, which is where we had a company called Nutjob Limited, which was like crazy, yeah. And then I went back into construction because it's always been a little bit of an easy route for me and there was still unfinished business, lots of things to learn. But yeah, so I think I've always my dad's in business. My dad's been in business. In fact, he only recently sold his business. Yeah, I think I've always had that entrepreneurial streak. I never felt like I was going down the right route with those other businesses, like now I feel, even though it's hard because I don't have any experience where I'm going and what I'm doing, it feels right and it feels, at this age, a right time to be doing it as well.

Zoe Greenhalf: 10:07

That's incredible. I love that. I love that you could also look back and sort of join the dots a little bit and see how everything has brought you to this point.

Michelle Hands: 10:19

It's all being useful. Yeah, that's one thing that I think is cool and that I always try and talk about is that whilst I could probably, in the narrative, say failure quite a few times, but actually my biggest failures have been the biggest lessons, and actually when I've succeeded it's not taught me a huge amount. That sounds strange, but, yeah, the failures have been good for me.

Zoe Greenhalf: 10:48

Yeah, what would you consider one of your failures to be?

Michelle Hands: 10:55

I think I get carried away sometimes with at the end of the day we're running businesses and sometimes I've got caught up in the end result and not enjoying the process and then kind of tripped over myself, like I did that with the first time I launched the clothing range. Like I went hard and then just started designing loads of stuff and people would ask for new sizes and I'd bring out new sizes and in the end what actually happened was I realised that from a business perspective it wasn't the best way to run a brand. But yeah, it's a learning curve. I think in engineering, when I was freelance engineer, there was lots of mistakes, like I project managed a petrol station with zero experience and one day a wall fell down and the concrete spilled all into, like this major highway which was like a master disaster. But they're funny times.

Michelle Hands: 11:57

Now I look back and I think it was what I was doing. But I learnt so much and engineering and construction things go wrong all the time. That's just how it is and at the time I took it to heart. I was probably only late twenties, not a huge amount of experience. But now I look back and I think, do you know what? I had a go and two or three years later I was running projects no problem, and I think if I hadn't have had those mistakes then I wouldn't have learnt.

Zoe Greenhalf: 12:30

And yeah, Do you think that the she who dares wins has been in you from the beginning? Have you always had that kind of daring streak, or is that something that grew with your experiences?

Michelle Hands: 12:44

I think confidence, definitely, for me, grows with just pushing a little bit outside the comfort zone, having a go. So yeah, I guess daring, and then you take these baby steps, don't you? Then you get confidence and I've always been the one to have a go. So I think, yeah, definitely it comes from that. I think as a kid I was incredibly quiet, like my parents are very, not shocked, but surprised, I guess, at the different things I've done over the years, because I was the quietest kid. I never spoke to anyone Really.

Michelle Hands: 13:15

Yeah oh yeah, like painfully shy, like painfully shy and always the underdog. So I struggled at school but always managed to get where I needed to get. I just, you know, I was the on the one in the background. That's like not giving up, not giving up, and I've always like now I think that's really interesting when I speak to people, like being the underdog, like with my two boys as well, I'm like you don't want to be like too clever and like, because then there's pressure and you know, when you constantly a success at everything, then you don't know how to deal with failure, whereas I think it's quite nice to be a little bit of an underdog, because you can just keep chipping away and eventually you know you slowly, you slowly creep up to wherever it is you want to be, but you gain confidence on the way. So, yeah, definitely, definitely. Underdog would be something I'd describe myself as.

Zoe Greenhalf: 14:07

Do you think you know? Having said that word, underdog, the people have underestimated you.

Michelle Hands: 14:16

Oh, massively, yeah, and I like that, like I generally would like to go into a situation where that is the case Even on like a daily basis. I used to love going onto a construction site and you know people. Quite often when you go on to new projects, they don't know who you are or what you're there for. Even even up until quite recently, because I was a freelance engineer, I turn up to clients and you'd have guys that wouldn't know me and they'd, you know, be saying, oh, are you the trainee, or are you this or you that? And then I kind of didn't say anything.

Michelle Hands: 14:49

And then, when construction is, it doesn't matter what you say. You have to prove yourself out in the field. So I just get my kit, just go out and then do what I needed to do. And then just see the faces of those that were like, oh, oh right, so she's the engineer. Oh right, okay, so she's come and marked out a whole road. Oh right, so we need it. Oh right, oh right, she's given us this. And that's kind of subtle and nice to be like that yeah kind of satisfying, I imagine.

Michelle Hands: 15:17

Yeah, not in a kind of I never wanted to kind of be disrespectful, but yeah, it was good, it was a good feeling.

Zoe Greenhalf: 15:25

I remember you saying that you didn't actually sit out to be in construction, you kind of fell into it. So how did that come around?

Michelle Hands: 15:33

Yeah. So I actually did a geography degree and then in my final year, whilst writing my dissertation, was like, what am I going to do? Like, most geography graduates become accountants and I? That is like my worst, absolute worst nightmare. Yeah, or going over to the environment agency.

Michelle Hands: 15:48

So it was actually that time that I signed up for film school and, being someone who was incredibly shy, it was a massive step for me. And I didn't just go to film school in London, I went to America and I went to Los Angeles. So I was like, if I'm going to do this, I'm going to do it. You know how it should be done. And when I got back, it was one of those things where I was like, oh, you know, I'm going to get picked up in Hollywood, it's just going to happen overnight.

Michelle Hands: 16:12

And then, when I got back into the country, my brother's friend was like right, there's a summer job going which I think you're part qualified for. And looking back on it, I was probably like 5% qualified for this job, but it was a lot of money. It was a lot of money and it was only for six to nine months of the year because it was weather dependent. So I went and did that job and I absolutely blagged it and it was on a landfill and it was working for a construction company making sure that they like kept to kind of legislation for the environment agency. And it's a very small job, a very small industry that once you start doing it, if you're half decent they just keep you. And so that was amazing, Like I had the best kind of, I'd say, five or six years and it was slightly construction related.

Michelle Hands: 17:02

It wasn't full on engineering but it was construction related. But I worked alongside a setting out engineer and then a few years down the line the industry was slowly, you know, slowing up and the setting out engineer was like you've seen what I do, you know how to redraw in. You should think about going into setting out and land surveying for construction and idea course down in London. And then, yeah, just ended up on some big projects They'd like the Nottingham tram, petrol stations, housing sites, and yeah, it was literally that one time of get a job and then just things snowballed from there and never looked back, it's so good, because isn't it how that happens sometimes?

Michelle Hands: 17:41

Yeah, yeah, it's quite common. Actually, a lot of women that we speak to in the industry they don't. They've kind of fallen upon the job and then and it's crazy because if someone had said to me at the age of 16, would you, you know, would you consider a job in construction? And I say this to girls now, because you don't see many women in construction, you don't think you can be in it, you don't think there are jobs for you. But that's absolutely not the case.

Zoe Greenhalf: 18:04

Yeah, that's true, but what can we do to inspire any power women today?

Michelle Hands: 18:11

I think what I'm trying to do is just I think we second guess ourselves and we don't believe that we can do things. And I'm not going to come from a place where I've got it all figured out, like I had a big wobble after having my second child, like post COVID, because I think you guess yourself then when you become a mother, because it's this whole other job. But what I do believe in is this just trying things. And the more I speak to women I guess you probably understand this as well the more people that you speak to, the more you realized no one has it figured out and there's never a right time to start. And I would just really love for more women that have.

Michelle Hands: 18:56

Or I get women say to me all the time, like even friends, like I wish I could do this or I really want to do this, but at some point I will get around to it, and I just want to shake them and be like there's no some point, like come on, this is it, and it's not easy, like taking new steps, but you can take baby steps to get to where you need to be.

Michelle Hands: 19:16

You don't have to quit your job tomorrow and start like you start a side hustle, you start a podcast, you see whatever, but don't give up on it, because you never know what happens when you just start. And sometimes starting is the hardest thing. And yeah, I do believe there's a lot of women that have the narrative of that's great, but that's not for me and I'm like no, it's for everyone. We've all got different paths to taking life and everyone's individual and everyone has everyone's a story to tell and everyone's got a passion and it doesn't matter what that is if it's knitting, great if it's riding motorcycles but just do it, because no one else can make you do it. It's got to be on your own terms and I just wish people would give it a go, basically, whatever that might be.

Zoe Greenhalf: 20:05

I love that. I think it just gave me a sound bite right there. I was like, oh, exactly that it is that, though, isn't it? I mean, yeah, I have a lot of these kind of conversations as well. I don't know about you, but people do look at me sometimes Like it's great, Zoe, I love that you're a big dreamer, but when you come back to reality, you'll realize that life is this way and I'm like come and try me up here. It's so much more fun.

Michelle Hands: 20:30

Yeah, it's way better Totally. Why would you want to go back? And I think you're right Like, I think, the word dreamer I think a lot of people would describe me the same. They'd be like dreamer. But if you don't dream, then what sort of look forward to Like we should be dreaming and dreams do get achieved.

Zoe Greenhalf: 20:47

So they do. I don't actually suffer too much with the whole kind of comparison thing on Instagram. Quite often I will see people and think, well, if they can do it, of course I can do it, you know, yeah, but it's funny how you say those. You have had those kind of conversations as well.

Michelle Hands: 21:05

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Zoe Greenhalf: 21:11

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Zoe Greenhalf: 21:58

Ps. If you are a small business doing things differently, an independent brand disrupting the status quo, or simply an unconventional, adventurous individual looking to create a positive impact, I'd love to hear from you about getting your story out there in the world and promoting you. Dm on Instagram @themischief movement Right, now on with the show. yeah yeah Women, we've talked a lot about the things that you've done, but what would you like people to know about you as Michelle? What would you like people to sort of walk away with?

Michelle Hands: 22:41

I think that I'm scrappy, I'm really unorganised, but I'm hoping that people can see that that's OK. Like you know, I actually released a sweater last year which was perfectly imperfect, and I think that kind of would sum me up.

Zoe Greenhalf: 23:01

And most of us.

Michelle Hands: 23:02

Yeah, it's taken a long time to come to that because I think when I was in my 20s I'd be like, oh, I've got loads of flaws. You shouldn't know me as anything other than flawed. And now I'm starting to realise those imperfections are pretty cool. I love trying to people. I love learning from other people women especially and I would hope that people would see me as quite approachable. I like to make people laugh. That was actually one of the things.

Michelle Hands: 23:33

Recently I had a life coach that I had a chat with and he got me to email a bunch of my close friends and family and with a bunch of questions, I was like really dreading it. And when the questions came back, one of the first things was what ignites me and everyone put storytelling and entertaining and I was like, oh, that's really cool, because like I'd actually forgotten at that side of my personality and forgotten that that was how I started with all this was sharing crazy stories about things that had happened in construction. So I'm now slowly bringing that back into the brand about it, not forgetting that it's me where it came from. So I guess that's what I'd want people to know.

Zoe Greenhalf: 24:20

Yeah, and also you are storytelling also through film as well, it's not? Just the podcast is it.

Michelle Hands: 24:27

Yeah. So my kind of film background I've never really want to let go of, and YouTube was great for that, because when I started to vlog on the construction site because I was like, well, I want to make films Construction, something that I would just set my camera up and people never knew that I was filming and that's kind of like, I guess, an itch that I've always wanted to scratch and I've continued with that. And now, alongside my podcast, I'm going to be doing mini documentary series where I choose people from the podcast that got kind of like interesting hobbies or careers and I'll go to them and we'll film together and it'll be me partaking. So I've done one with Christina who's a Thai boxer and then I'll close the show. Documentary and filmmaking is a real passion.

Michelle Hands: 25:17

I've never really been able to crack the whole perfect production in terms of like funding and making it profitable, but I don't think storytelling needs to be.

Michelle Hands: 25:26

I think there's other ways to monetize a business. For me it's just when I go out and I film whether it's me in front of the camera or me filming someone else it's always such a buzz Like there's nothing that gives me a buzz more than that, other than podcasts and, yeah, it's something that I would love for it to grow with the Shih U Desperine wins brand is content and creating these documentaries and maybe getting other brands on board at some point and just being able to showcase other women's cool stories, because there's so many untold stories out there that are incredible and I just feel like the more they can be shared, the more we can inspire the next generation to. You know, not everyone's going to you know down tools and quit their nine to five, but maybe there's a lot of people out there that should question you know what they're doing and their jobs and by having these little videos they can, and I've always been inspired by film documentaries, so I know that how powerful they can be.

Zoe Greenhalf: 26:31

Yeah, and I watched some of the documentary with Lara as well, she was doing the solo rowing. Was it across the Atlantic?

Michelle Hands: 26:39

Yes, yeah, she's just about to do. I'm not going to reveal it because she hasn't revealed it yet, but she's about to do another massive project. Yes, such a powerhouse and such an incredible story behind her, and I'm just so excited to share more women's stories.

Zoe Greenhalf: 26:58

Yeah, and how did that come about? Because I noticed that she had she who dares wins on the boat and she had a T-shirt and everything and I was like I mean, that's so fitting, isn't it really?

Michelle Hands: 27:10

Yeah. So it's crazy. Actually, I randomly got a Facebook message from someone who tagged me in her story and they were like you should speak to this woman. And I just read the story and I was like that's a crazy thing to do on your own. And so I phoned her up and I was just like, oh, like I don't have, the brand is very small. I don't have a huge sum of money, but I think what you're doing is incredible. How can I support you?

Michelle Hands: 27:39

And I sponsored basically, if you sponsored her, you could have your sticker on the boat and I noticed that she'd got who dares wins. So I texted her before. The phone call was like I think you need to replace that with she who dares wins. And on the phone call I realized how much who dares wins meant to her, because she lost her father and he was in the SAS. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was like whoa, this is, this is so much bigger than than that.

Michelle Hands: 28:06

And then we got chatting and you know, when you speak to someone for like five or 10 minutes and you like I get this person like we're on the same wavelength and I think I just said to her I was like look, is there anyone documenting this experience for you? And she was like no. I was like, okay, I think I'm going to try and make this happen. And Zoe, who I film with, she's like my. Whenever I need a professional like she, that's her full time job.

Michelle Hands: 28:27

And I said, do you reckon we could go out to Spain and film her before she sets off?

Michelle Hands: 28:32

Like, she's got this incredible story and I was like I'm going to make it work, I'm going to find the finances for this. And so we just, yeah, flew out in December and she was pre race, so she was pre packing everything into the boat and she had so much time for us Like she just, you know, lost her dad. She was on this journey. She'd got this week to pre plan everything and everything was crazy, but she gave us so much time and I was so grateful for that Like, and her story was so heartfelt.

Michelle Hands: 29:06

And then we left literally like two days before she set off and then we followed her journey just remotely over the internet and then I've had her back on and her podcast is soon to be released and, yeah, just an incredible person and she really has taught me a lot in, you know, resilience and just going for it and having a lot of self belief. So, yeah, that's, that's how that crazy thing and most things like you probably know, the internet it just takes for a DM and then you're on a roll with you know, chatting to people and thinking that's like I do have a love hate relationship with social media.

Michelle Hands: 29:48

Oh yeah like absolutely do have a love and.

Zoe Greenhalf: 29:52

I think that's normal.

Michelle Hands: 29:53

Yeah, but when it, when it hits gold like that, it's incredibly powerful and it's a reminder for me to show up as well, because you never know who's scrolling that day and what impact you can have on them, no idea who's even seeing your stuff and it's just lurking.

Zoe Greenhalf: 30:09

They're not like engaging, but you are being seen. You know, I've I've experienced this firsthand. I'm like I didn't even know I was on your radar and they're like, not the freak way, but watching you.

Michelle Hands: 30:21

Yeah, yeah, I think it's about that, isn't it?

Michelle Hands: 30:25

It's about it's about turning up when you don't get anything back and and being a little bit.

Michelle Hands: 30:30

I guess I was naive in my twenties and I was like, oh, you know, followers and likes and comments, and now I'm trying to become a little bit more selfless and be like you know, you've got to help people, you've got to put stuff out there, because it's those times in business probably up until a few years ago, when you know I was struggling, that I would read back through emails that women had sent me, one in particular who was a woman who was going through cancer treatment, and she was like, every time I go to chemo with my friend, we've both got shew day's wins t-shirts and we turn the t-shirts, yeah, and like I'd read this to my husband, he was like this is why you keep going this. You know these are the, the very reasons, not the, not the articles or the journalists that turn up to you to to interview you, and you know it's. It's the people that you touch, the people. You know the people that need you. So that's the start reminder to keep, to keep going and always will be for me.

Zoe Greenhalf: 31:28

Yeah, yeah. And then and it's good that you said that you do go back through them when it feels hard, because I was gonna ask you, what do you do?

Michelle Hands: 31:35

because it's not always gonna be plain sailing and I imagine that there's so many Tough moments, even even you know, amongst all the good stuff, yeah, yeah, with, I think with anyone in business or even in a job, the zebs and flows isn't there and it's learning to enjoy and sit with the hard times, like I used to get quite panicky, you know, when things weren't going right and, to be honest with you, for quite a few years I jumped back into construction because that was kind of like my safe space and now I'm learning to just sit with it, yeah, till the next.

Michelle Hands: 32:10

You know the next one comes, it does come, and the things that get me through yeah is is is listening to other people's stories and and family as well, like having incredibly supportive husband to absolutely incredible young boys and you know a mom and dad and brother who are also incredibly supportive and I think they they can get through it me. I saw my dad's business go through good times and bad times and you know he came out the other end and I think he's kind of Southerly taught me that. You know you just you just keep going one for in front of the other.

Zoe Greenhalf: 32:47

Yeah, and how do you see she who dares wins Progressing, because right now you've got your podcast. Yeah, we're making some documentaries. Yeah, you got your merch.

Michelle Hands: 33:01

Yeah.

Zoe Greenhalf: 33:02

Is there some? Is there? Is something else on the horizon?

Michelle Hands: 33:05

No, no, I've learned the hard way. Too many fingers, so many pies yeah, the plan would be. I Guess, if it was like a pie chart would be the content, as as the large portion of this and it's the some, it's actually the portion of she who dares wins which is dipped massively In the last couple of years because of these other projects like merch takes a lot.

Zoe Greenhalf: 33:30

Yes.

Michelle Hands: 33:31

Good to go into that and you end up I end up thinking I've not posted, I've not given any quality content. So now I'm having help with the content in terms of I'm not very good at you know, strategy or even keeping to a schedule. So I've got help and plug in the gap where I kind of fail on that point and so content's gonna come back into it. I'm gonna pour my heart and soul into the newsletter and that's not just to push people to buy products like it's gonna be a newsletter that I would want you know, if I was, if I was receiving it, I'd want to save it and be able to come back and read it and read those points. So that's the kind of aim with the newsletter. Again, the documentaries I'd love for those to grow to a point where you know they're serious and we're getting other brands on board and the production value increases. We get to travel with that and go and meet, you know, women in other countries that are doing amazing things and the podcaster just you know it's.

Michelle Hands: 34:24

It's really in its like infancy in terms of I did two or three episodes before, but they were incredible guests on there. They were predominantly friends on Instagram that were in construction industry and now I'm just. You know, I'm Scaling the internet and finding the most weird and wonderful stories from women and I really want to expose those through the podcast. And, you know, have on, like I've had Emma White, who's a jewelry maker, and industries that I've never considered or would consider, and speaking to women that are doing. You know, I want to speak to a butcher and I want to speak to you know someone who dropped you, flies planes for a living, and you know people in sport, a sports quite an easy one. There seems to be a lot of great stories in sport, but yeah, that's the plan is to increase exposure to women and Empower them through the power of storytelling.

Zoe Greenhalf: 35:22

Yeah, yeah, because I think, as you said before, once we start talking about what we're doing or what the people are doing, it does make you question your choices and also what's available, yeah, things that perhaps you just haven't considered before. If I can help you In any way finding people or you know groups, communities I don't know, like, please feel free to just reach out to me, even if you're just looking for right. I've got a podcast episode coming up, but I need to find a person in this particular Industry or somebody random that you know. I do know a lot of people in a lot of strange oh, so I might be able to help you oh yeah, no, that's what it is.

Michelle Hands: 36:08

It's all just about talking, isn't it? It's about meeting new people in. Yeah, I was incredibly excited to. I was not gonna let you even. I was like dying with a coffee spoon. It's like I'm not letting Zoe down. Yeah, it's great and I love yeah, I just love choking and hearing other people's stories, and yours is fascinating too. Yeah, I think I think weirdly with the mic. So you worked in the shoe industry. Yes, so yeah, that industry always like fascinated me and and actually my father-in-law. He Designed shoes for a Small period of time.

Zoe Greenhalf: 36:46

Yeah yeah. I was always more fascinated by the light handmade sort of leather. You know had this vision of a little Shoemaker in Italy who, I don't know, had no family to pass his business on and all was just Waiting for the day that some naive English woman would just walk in and be like oh my god, I just want to take over your store, bingo. There you go, I'm retiring. Here you go, I'll teach you everything you need to know. And it just didn't work out that way for me.

Michelle Hands: 37:17

It wasn't meant to be. Maybe it was a podcast.

Zoe Greenhalf: 37:21

No, I meant to be. I much prefer, I think, having these kind of conversations with people doing all sorts of incredible things, though yeah, it's just fascinating. And and the fact that I just get to sit and ask questions, like you were saying, everybody's got a story. Everybody's got a story. Yeah, it's so interesting. People's journeys are never linear and there's so much random stuff that goes on between the beginning, in the middle and the end. Yeah, and you know I'm picking that, and why did you choose that and what happened there, and you know it's just really fascinating to me.

Michelle Hands: 37:57

Yeah, no, it is, it's yeah. I think I've always been fascinated by storytelling and also listening. Like you say, listening to people stories. I'm with that one on the the train. That's like shh to my husband and you. There's somebody over there talking about a fascinating story.

Zoe Greenhalf: 38:13

Where can people find out more about you?

Michelle Hands: 38:17

So probably I guess the main website, shoe days wins comm On there there'll be links to the podcast that be linked to the merch. You can find me at shoe days wins on Instagram, at shoe days wins on tiktok. You're a tiktoker, just I see. So I kick myself because I started tiktok, hmm, about three years ago and I, if I'd have just kept going, like anything, I probably would have been half decent in terms of following by now. But I stopped, stop started, stop started. But I'm back on now because I have a young See, like a graduate, who is on board to help me with social media and the world of tiktok is kind of opening my eyes and the potential that it has. So, yes, tiktok, I've not figured it out yet.

Michelle Hands: 39:07

I still feel like I'm tiktok. Yeah, it's, it's fun. I like tiktok because it's less. I feel like Instagram got to a point where you know you wanted a nice feed and Always second guessing. Well, you know, today I don't look that great. Do I need to put a film on Instagram, whereas I think feel like with tiktok it's just like run and gun. It's probably more my vibe, to be honest with you, if we're talking like if I'd have been here 20 years ago and tiktok would have been then it'd have been perfect. But, um, yeah, I'm just trying to have fun as well with socials and not look at it as a job, which it is ultimately. And but yeah, I, I'm definitely getting caught by the algorithm.

Zoe Greenhalf: 39:49

So they say oh well, I, like you say, I think if you can attack it, like from a point of view of just having fun with it, yeah, that's probably the best way. Otherwise you just tang yourself and not so well go the rooms, don't you? Yeah, totally.

Zoe Greenhalf: 40:03

Yeah yeah, cool Michelle. It's been absolute pleasure, and I think if there's one thing I've learned from you today, it's just Just go for it, isn't it really? It's like I Think anybody who listens to this episode will just feel as though they've just got to be a bit bold, really.

Michelle Hands: 40:22

Yeah, yeah, you never know what's gonna happen. But at the end of the day, if you can live without like, I'd rather be regretful of stuff that I tried then regretful of stuff I didn't try.

Zoe Greenhalf: 40:34

Absolutely.

Michelle Hands: 40:35

Thank you so much, michelle. Well, you're welcome. Thanks, it's been absolute pleasure I.

Zoe Greenhalf: 40:42

Don't go anywhere. Here come this week's takeaways. Number one there are always lessons in a perceived failure. In fact, I often invite you to reframe failure as simply feedback. Two try not to focus too much on the end result, but learn to enjoy the process.

Zoe Greenhalf: 40:59

Three confidence comes from taking scrappy action that's just outside your comfort zone. Four there's no shame in being the underdog. There's a lot to be said for staying in your lane with low expectations, building the confidence as you go and persisting slowly towards your goal. Five nobody has it all figured out and there will never be a right time, so just get going with the baby steps. Don't let your fear block you from giving something a go.

Zoe Greenhalf: 41:29

Six it's okay to be a dreamer, because people do reach their dreams. Seven it's okay to be scrappy and feel disorganized. No one is perfect, so strive for the progress instead and learn to embrace your so-called imperfections as your uniqueness. Eight you might have a love-hate relationship with social media, but it's a great asset for connecting with people and building relationships. When you show up and give selflessly, you never know who will notice you. Nine when you can really anchor into your why, it will keep you going. On the tough days, focus on the people you help, the lives you touch and your reasons to stay the course, creating for yourself a folder of positive feedback which you can read if things feel tough.

Zoe Greenhalf: 42:21

Well, I hope you loved today's episode and it made you think differently, or perhaps nodged you into changing something in your life that's not working for you. I'd love to give you a shout out right here on the podcast, too, so let me know what you think, what you'd like to hear more of, or how you've been inspired to take bold action. Let's keep in touch over on Instagram at the Mischief Movement, or click the link in the show notes to sign up to my Mischief Mail newsletter, where you'll get exclusive insights on upcoming episodes and your chance to submit questions to future guests. But shh, don't tell anyone. It's our secret. Please keep spreading the word about the podcast. You're doing such an amazing job, and I'm also super grateful for your five star ratings on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, which seriously helped my mission to inspire and empower more people like us to choose Mischief over mediocre. Have a great week and keep making Mischief ciao.