Ep.17 Breaking Free from Tradition: Navigating Modern Adulthood and Living Life on Your Own Terms with Hayley Dawson

Feeling overwhelmed by the multitude of life choices in today's fast-paced world? Join me as I sit down with Hayley Dawson, founder of The Blocks (*edit: now called Let's Talk Human Skills) and a Researcher who has studied modern adulthood, to explore how living life on your own terms can help you overcome challenges and redefine success. Hayley shares her story and valuable insights on breaking away from tradition to build a life you can be proud of.

Together, we navigate through the complexities of modern adulthood brought about by endless options and societal expectations. Hayley emphasises the importance of getting back to basics, discovering our passions, and accepting that there's no rush to achieve everything by a certain age. We discuss the pressures of ticking off milestones at a young age and the sharp increase in stress that comes with establishing our adult status.

Hayley also opens up about her personal journey of pivoting her career and becoming a rebel, leading her to create The Blocks (now Let's Talk Human Skills) - a community and workshop series that helps others navigate life and find their unique path. We explore the curiosity and suspicion that can arise when making changes in our lives, and how we can reframe our perspectives to understand that everything is constantly moving, and we're actually fine where we are now. Tune in for an eye-opening discussion on ways to embrace those quarterlife or midlife struggles and living life on your own terms.

Chapters

• 0:00 Living on Your Own Terms
• 14:27 Navigating Modern Adulthood
• 20:50 Rebelling Against Conventional Paths
• 36:25 Life Is a Lifelong Journey
• 40:09 Navigating Modern Adulthood
• 50:12 Encouraging Engagement and Empowerment

Transcript

Zoe: 0:00

Hello, it's Zoe and welcome or welcome back to the Mischief Movement podcast, your weekly inspo for people looking for more hell yeah in their life. Consider this you're one way to get out of mid-life mediocrity towards fun and positive impact via playful disruption. Wouldn't you love to wake up and feel like a total badass? How about breaking some rules, throwing two fingers up to society and doing more of the things you love? I'm talking full on freedom, adventure and those meaningful connections I know you've been craving. Stop waiting for your amazing life to happen and go get it. I'll be picking the brains of some true game changers and mischief makers so I can share what I find and hopefully inspire you to shake things up, do more of what makes you feel alive and boldly rebel against the ordinary. I have no idea what I'm doing, to be honest, but I've got a mission and I'm here to start a movement. This is going to be quite the adventure. Care to join me? Okay, here goes.

Zoe: 1:04

I've waited months to have this conversation with Hayley about navigating modern adulthood, hoping that she'd be able to shed some light on why we go through these phases of panic, confusion or feeling stuck as we muddle our way through the quarter and mid-life. Haley is a researcher, so she knows a thing or two about the struggles of finding our way as we try and manage the pressures of everyday life, as well as being founder of online community the blocks, but I'll let her tell you more about that. All I will say is that if, like me, you've ever reached a point in your life where you've felt stuck, lost, confused, overwhelmed by life choices or, contrastingly, felt trapped by the choices that you've made, then this episode will open your eyes to the fact that, no, you're not alone and, yes, you can definitely do something about it. Well, hi, Haley, it's so lovely to finally meet you after sending you various emails over the last couple of months. Thank you for joining me.

Hayley Dawson: 2:12

No, it's great to see you and meet you. Thank you so much for having me.

Zoe: 2:15

You're very welcome. Would you like to tell everybody who you are and what your mischief is?

Hayley Dawson: 2:22

Sure, so I am Haley Dawson. I'm the founder of the blocks, which is a community and workshop series to help people to navigate life, and I'm also a researcher and have been for just under a decade. My research journey has sort of taken me through lots of very interesting topics and I've landed on something that I really enjoy researching very much, and that is modern adulthood. So, looking at modern life, the challenges that we face and how we can overcome them, my mischief is it's sort of linked to my work, really, and it's all about breaking away from tradition and living a life on my own terms. So in my work I look back to previous generations and what their lives were like and how they built them, and I can see that the life that they had has become almost inaccessible for us today. So, yeah, i guess my mischief is all about breaking away from that and living a life on our own terms, because modern adulthood has thrown some intense obstacles our way and the particular set of challenges that we face, i think, cause for a solution that we may never have seen before. We're sort of stood at this strange crossroads. I like to think of it as with tradition tempting us to turn left and necessity, pulling us to the right, and I believe that defining a life in our own way and on our own terms can help us to feel secure and confident and content as well. So I guess that's my mischief and it's sort of intertwined with that. But I'm not saying that building a life on our own terms will solve everything, because there are so many problems in the world, even just looking at what's been happening over the past few years the pandemic war, cost of living, climate change and many people experiencing so much stress and exhaustion and burnout and I'm not saying that building a life on our own terms will solve all of these sort of modern day problems that we have in terms of young people struggling with unemployment and getting independence from their parents and being trapped in this sort of comparison cycle of social media. But I do believe that it helps us to ask ourselves what we really want, and it's almost a way of taking the pressure off and allowing ourselves to identify our own definition of success and go and build that life that we want, perhaps in a mischievous way for some people as well.

Zoe: 5:03

Yeah, absolutely, and I think that's one of the reasons that when I discovered the blocks, i was so curious and interested. I just felt like a lot of what you described is also how I feel, from that sense of building something that's meaningful. As you say, it's not going to change the big world problems, but I do think that if every person believed a little bit more in possibility, what's possible for them, and worked on creating something that feels good for them, the impact will then be felt by all the people around them. So you know, it's the small changes, but they're really significant. So what would you like people to know about your story and where you've come from to get here?

Hayley Dawson: 5:50

So, yeah, i've deeply reflected, i guess, on the paths that I've taken so far and my own unique quarter life experience, if you like. I've felt lost, confused, uncertain and have blamed myself for not being able to keep up, whatever that means. And I got here because I got to a point in life where I realised that I'd been building a lot of stability and perhaps following a path that was more expected of me than what was actually meant for me. So I always have had well, i always used to have two jobs alongside studying, worrying about having enough money to survive and trying to maintain friendships, etc. Etc. And I spent the time between the ages of, i'd say, 16 when I started working and 28 with my head down, determined to build strong foundations for my life.

Hayley Dawson: 6:51

I was working towards becoming a language professional, actually, and that was sort of a dream that I discovered at the age of 16 when I realised how much I enjoyed Spanish at school. To begin with I was terrible at it, but then fast forward a few years and, taking out loads of struggles and failures with that, i managed to become fluent after spending a few years in Madrid and Barcelona, living there, and I decided that I wanted to become a translator and a subtitler, but throwing myself into that as soon as I finished uni was not really an option, because it turns out that you need to get through translation tests, create a portfolio of work, belong to a professional association and specialise in a particular area. So I really put myself to work and to do all of that and seven years later, armed with an impressive portfolio and loads of experience working on some famous titles and things that I actually realised that something wasn't quite right after having done all of that work to reach that dream that I had as a 16 year old, and I felt panicked and confused, and I think a lot of people go through this. It was almost as though I had achieved everything that I wanted professionally and I actually thought it would take me at least 10 years, 10 more years to reach that stage that I had already gotten to, and I was like what now? you know, i knew that I could continue down that same path, but it was almost as though I had done too much too soon and left nothing for my future, which, of course, is absolutely not true, but it's what I thought at the time when I was going through all of this panic and confusion around what have I done.

Hayley Dawson: 8:37

But the reality is that, and I guess what I would love to share about my story is that the dreams that we have at 16 or however old, are not necessarily the dreams that will have 10 years later, because we grow right and as we grow, so do our likes, dislikes, interests, aspirations and all of it and you know, don't get me wrong, i still love Spanish, i still love Spain, translation and subtitling and everything, but we can give ourselves room to grow and explore different things and go down different paths.

Hayley Dawson: 9:11

I think many of us think that we have or we need a job for life. But really, this idea, i'm finding that it's fizzling out a bit. It is the right thing for some people, definitely, and it's not the right thing for other people, but I guess that's the point, and maybe the takeaway even is that we can all have our own ideas of how we want to build and live our lives. So, after all of that stability, i guess I then found meaning in creating the blocks, because I couldn't find a space that was helping people through that panic and that confusion, so I decided to create that space, you know.

Zoe: 9:53

I can identify with a lot of that, actually, although mine hit a bit later, I was probably probably about 35, 36 but yeah, definitely there is this idea that I think it's a throwback to previous generations where you studied really hard and you got your job for life and we're still living out a little bit of that, where you know, perhaps we are still the generation of having parents that encourage you to work really hard and get that job and there aren't really those discussions that make it seem normal when you don't actually want that or you get to a certain stage and you think actually I've come as far as I want to come with this job, or you know, whatever it is, perhaps now would be a good point to change.

Zoe: 10:52

And I think there's a lot of fear around that people feel like they've invested time, energy, money and it's so scary to then turn around and say it's not fulfilling me. I think I want to do something else, to just kind of drop that and pick up something else. And I think you know, even if you want to do that, sometimes it's hard to find the support around you, to find the other people who understand that, because people mean well your family, your friends. They, want to see you, they want to protect you, they want to see you stay safe, and so, even if inside of your head you're going, 'but I think this is not doing it for me anymore and I really need to try something else'. You're probably going to find those people around you going, 'yeah, but you know, do you really want to leave that job? the money's really good and you just don't know what's going to happen', and that can be really discouraging, even if you yourself have made that decision. Suddenly you're kind of doubting yourself

Hayley Dawson: 11:53

It's kind of that like sunk cost fallacy, isn't it, where you've sort of invested so much thought and time and maybe even money into something to then perhaps realise, oh, do I want to continue this, or maybe it's just not working for you, and and that's sort of? I think what is an aspect of what can hold us back is is actually just thinking, oh, but I've put so much into this, i just need to carry on. I just need to do this forever now. Um, but it's just not the case.

Zoe: 12:22

Yeah, yeah um, so tell me about creating this project of the blocks then, and you know, the bits that get you really excited about it.

Hayley Dawson: 12:32

Sure. So I guess the thing that gets me really excited is bringing people together and sharing ideas, um, and really opening people's eyes to the fact that there are so many different ways to build a life there are almost as many different ways to build a life as there are people on the planet right, because we're all so individual, um, and I think we only realise that when we actually come together, um, because when you listen to others, you realise that you're not stuck and you're not lost, because everybody is on this constant journey of exploration and experimentation, um. So I guess that that is what gets me most excited about the blocks and this project and, and being able to to bring so many people together, um, this sort of having everyone come together and have that realisation moment, um, which can be really life-changing. Actually, it sounds like, uh, you've experienced it. Um, i have as well.

Zoe: 13:31

Um, yeah, and it's, it's a really great moment when, when that happens, i think yeah, i mean, as I said before, i think that whole sense of finding people who feel the same way or can encourage you because they can see beyond the old model, um, is really important and if you're creating a space for you know like minded people and people to share those are kind of ideas, then suddenly it normalises these feelings and you don't feel like you're kind of stranded on an island with everybody else following their career path till the very end, and you're there kind of going. Well, i must be the only one who feels a bit lost or a bit stuck or lacking direction, um, because I know that's how I felt and one of the frustrating things about feeling like that is this sense of I must be really ungrateful. Then. I mean, i don't know if you experienced that, but I certainly felt like, well, if I'm unhappy but I've got work, i should be grateful.

Zoe: 14:27

Um, i'm just ungrateful, that's. You know, that's the reality and really what I've come to learn since is it's not necessarily about being ungrateful. I think you can still feel really grateful but be unfulfilled, and I think the two things can coexist together and sometimes what people mistake for just a person in their life being ungrateful for their situation is actually a sense of not feeling like their life is fulfilling yeah, definitely, i have certainly felt that way, especially in moments of, uh, immense change or changing my mind or wanting to pivot.

Hayley Dawson: 15:09

It's sort of like, but why aren't I happy with this? I should be. There are so many more greater problems in the world and of course there are, um. But, yeah, i think we have to sort of treat that with a bit of grace, right, um, if, if it's, if something's not right for us, then it's not right. Um, and if something needs changing, then it needs changing. And if something's a problem for us, then it's a problem for us, um, and and it's sort of maybe, yeah, allowing ourselves a bit of grace and to deal with that and to not feel so guilty yeah, and what kind of advice do you think you would give to anybody who's listening right now and feels like that?

Hayley Dawson: 15:49

well, i think, um, this is sort of one of the reasons why, um, we struggle to navigate modern adulthood, because there are there are sort of so many options out there, right, that we almost have this kind of decision paralysis, um, and feel ungrateful about not being able, or guilty even about not being able to choose a path or choosing one, and thinking, oh god, this is great for so many reasons, but it's just not for me, um, but there are just so many things out there, um, and also, i think that some of us can get caught into this trap of feeling ungrateful, where we build a part of our lives but we still think but this isn't what I was promised, this isn't what I've seen before, right, because we're sort of all trying to build our lives against a benchmark that is now almost unattainable, at least in the time frame that previous generations built their lives on, um, and I think it can lead to our suffering from the stress, exhaustion and burnout that that we're seeing, um. So I think I guess I say that if, if anyone is feeling ungrateful or guilty, or even rushed or panicked as well, this is a reminder that it's okay to feel that way, um, and I know that when you're stuck in that, it can be hard to feel any other way, because many of us sort of feel as though we need to tick off specific things at an incredibly young age and in a particular order as well, um, and if we're, we're, we're doing that, but we're still not happy, we're still not feeling fulfilled. It might be because that's actually not what you want to do, um, so I'd sort of recommend going back to that, back to basics, and exploring what it actually is, because you know the, the typical sort of things that we have like milestones, if you like, have first studying something to become qualified, then getting our dream job and buying a property and having a solid group of friends, and finding your person, starting a family. I felt some of these pressures too, and it can be really exhausting, um, but there is research that shows that when going it alone for the first time, people enter this sort of prolonged interim state as they attempt to establish their status as adults, um, and people experience this sharp increase in stress, especially in their late 20s and early to mid 30s. Um, and I think that's that's really the point where all of these feelings that we're that we've been talking about come up. You know, i guess I've come to realise that there is Also no rush.

Hayley Dawson: 18:37

Imagine you've achieved everything you ever wanted by the age of 30. What do you do now? You could have 70 plus years left in this life And you know how are you gonna feel the time? I guess some people might argue that you could spend the rest of your life enjoying what you've built, and I agree to an extent. You could totally do that if you wanted to, and I'm sure it would be glorious.

Hayley Dawson: 19:00

But are your interests and wants and needs going to be the same for the next 70 plus years? Or can you accept that going down different paths, even living multiple lives within your one life, and even producing your best piece of work at the age of I don't know 55 Is also completely acceptable? So yeah, i'd invite anyone who feels this way to get back to basics. You know, sit down with a pen and paper and allow yourself to dream Right, think about your biggest, wildest dreams and write them down, and you'll soon see that the amount of things that you have in front of you is Actually impossible to achieve by the time you're 25, 30, 40, even 50 in some cases, and our dreams Don't have deadlines. So it's sort of like where is this pressure Even coming from? you know? yeah.

Zoe: 19:57

I remember hearing a statistic I can't remember the exact context now, but it was saying just how many women in particular start their own businesses at 40 or 45 plus. And for me that really helped take some of the pressure off because I think, you know, 30 is a benchmark, 40 is a benchmark. It's like when you're younger you do have these ideas of where you see yourself at these milestone ages. And then you know, i know many people who have reached those ages and That has been the start, that's been the catalyst for them to go Oh, my goodness, i'm not there yet. You know that must mean I'm doing it wrong, and it doesn't mean that at all.

Hayley Dawson: 20:43

Absolutely. Yeah, that's.

Zoe: 20:50

It's series two and I'm excited to be back partnering with play club, again, a brand. His mission is to change the attitude towards vulnerability and To encourage more conversation around it in order to increase real human connection. The vehicle for these conversations is clothing, or Connection clothing as it's become known, and connection is one of our core values. So to bring more people together and help you rebel against staying the same, plight Club are offering a cheeky 10% discount when you use the code mischief at the checkout. Sustainable, organic and rebellious, of course. Plight Club also uses 50% of their profits to fund proactive suicide prevention in the form of coaching, support and awareness raising, which enables people to understand their emotions and express how they feel constructively. Become a vulnerable with us. For more info on the brand or to buy online, go to plightclubcouk or follow on Instagram at plightclub HQ.

Zoe: 21:52

Now on with the show. Can you remember the moment where you kind of felt this is not exactly Where I think I want to be and something needs to change? I Can, i really can. It was about a year and a half ago.

Hayley Dawson: 22:13

And I was 29 and The age is relevant to this, because I'm not a person that I'm not.

Hayley Dawson: 22:21

I'm not a person that I'm not a person of this, because I think that when you've sort of got a 9 at the end of your age Some people anyway, and I was certainly one of them a couple of years ago you tend to panic And sort of Evaluate what you've been doing for the past decade.

Hayley Dawson: 22:39

And I think having a 9 at the end of your age is actually maybe, apart from 19, i think it's actually a really powerful thing because it sort of prompts you think about what you've done, where you've come, the paths that you've travelled, evaluate everything so far and think forward to okay, am I doing this the way that I want to? Am I travelling where I want to travel and doing what I want to do? So yeah, that was sort of the moment there. It was actually a time when I was actually ill at the time and I had Covid, i had plenty of time on my hands to just sort of lie on the sofa and feel sorry for myself And I had sort of all of these ruminating thoughts, you know, and that's actually when I sort of had that conversation with myself And it was sort of like my 30th was coming up.

Zoe: 23:39

So, given that, did you come up with your next step? Did you know what you were going to do in terms of trying to change that situation? Or were you kind of not floundering exactly, but were you there going? God, I just don't know. I figured out a part of this, but I'm not sure what my next step needs to be. Or did you already know?

Hayley Dawson: 24:02

I didn't know It was sort of this moment where I was feeling really appreciative of the experiences that I had had, sort of over the previous decade And really appreciative of the opportunities that I had had and how far I'd come in in my work and career, but also that realisation of as much as I love this, i don't think I want to do this forever, and so I actually started to try and find a space or a sort of group of people. I thought there must be something out there that helps people share ideas around these sort of struggles, around feeling stuck or lost or confused. There must be some kind of community out there or some kind of workshop I can join. And I couldn't find anything And that actually I think it's this kind of quite serendipitous thing that has happened in that, you know, i was struggling with that and I couldn't find what I needed And I actually ended up creating that space, as much as for me as for other people. Really, it happens so often. Yeah, it really does, yeah.

Zoe: 25:16

So, given everything that you've created so far, would you say you are a bit of a rebel.

Hayley Dawson: 25:23

I think so, yes, so I, yeah. I definitely have a rebellious side to me, and when I do rebel, it sort of takes the form of me seeing something or thinking of something that I want to do and just going for it. It's sort of like this unapologetic attitude that I can have sometimes in just thinking I want to do that, i'm right. Okay, what is it going to take for me to get there? Right, this might not happen, this might not work out, but let's give this a go. And I noticed that I'm actually usually met with some form of it feels like suspicion from people sometimes, you know. So it's like I wanted to start the blocks, so I did, but people would say but you've already got a job, what are you doing? Or I decided that I wanted to write a book, actually, which is something that I'm doing at the moment, so I am doing it. I found a way to make that happen.

Hayley Dawson: 26:24

And people are saying why are you doing that? There's a lot of curiosity and almost suspicion around it. Why do you think that is? I don't know, but it does make me feel really mischievous and rebellious. It does, and I experienced it as well when pivoting my career. I've pivoted it quite a few times since I've been working And it's like, while people are really happy for you and encouraging, there is also this sort of inquisitiveness that they can't quite hide Why are you doing that, why are you interested in this, why are you making this move?

Hayley Dawson: 27:05

And my response is usually the same I've done this for five years. I've enjoyed it, i've got a lot out of it and I've contributed an awful lot as well to whatever it is that I've been doing. But in the grand scheme of life, i probably don't want to do it forever and ever and ever. So I'm going to turn. While this is still sort of in the background and I've still got this, i'm going to try and turn my attention to something else, and I guess it sort of aligns with building a life on my own terms and then the blocks and sharing ideas on how to do that for other people as well, which does feel a little bit rebellious.

Hayley Dawson: 27:45

And I've sort of noticed this resistance as well, especially with young adults around identifying their own idea of success and building this life on their own terms and in a way that's most meaningful to them. Let's say It's not just I think it's not just because of the struggles that we have navigating modern adulthood. but it's also that there is met with this resistance of people getting married later or not at all, people actually choosing to not have children by choice, you know, and all sorts of other things, not wanting to climb a career ladder or have this sort of corporate career or any type of traditional career, but actually dipping in and out of what you enjoy. And of course I understand that there are without doubt levels of privilege that comes with being able to do that as well. But I am sort of noticing that that resistance, definitely among the young adults that I work with and in the workshops that I run as well, there seems to be this sort of rebellion happening.

Zoe: 29:06

You mentioned that you have pivoted many times already but you're still you know how old are you? 30? I'm 30, yeah, that's actually still quite young. So, yeah, it is Somebody to have pivoted many times. What kind of careers have you had so far?

Hayley Dawson: 29:25

Sure. So I mentioned my love of Spanish earlier. Yes, so I well, i mean, while I was sort of at school and sixth form and university, i was working in retail just to make ends meet. You know, i absolutely had to do that to fund my way through it because it was the only way to get through it. I did an Erasmus year abroad, in Madrid, which was part of my degree, and I worked as an English language assistant. So I did have a couple of years teaching English language to Spanish native Spanish speakers abroad And that also sort of led into translation, which led into subtitling, and I've had about eight years of translation and an eight year translation and subtitling career, which I've absolutely loved, subtitling content for streaming services such as Prime, netflix, on some really incredible Spanish films and TV series.

Hayley Dawson: 30:29

That sort of led me then into accessibility. So, because I was subtitling and sort of making content accessible for people in a different language, it was also making content accessible for a deaf and hard of hearing audience And that led me into an area called media accessibility, which is actually where I became a researcher, which is where I started my research career. Just under a decade ago, i decided to embark on research in the form of sort of doing a PhD. So I did that in media accessibility and translation studies, and then that has led to my current full time job, because I have the blocks as a part time job And my full time job is actually as a researcher at a research institute for disabled and older consumers, and then my research has taken me into modern adulthood with the blocks as well. So it kind of makes sense in a way, that part You can sort of see how one thing leads to another, but it is full of all of these pivots along the way as well.

Zoe: 31:50

It's really interesting. Did it make sense at the time, or is it something that, looking back, you can see now how you've managed to join all the dots?

Hayley Dawson: 32:01

Yeah, i think it made sense at the time because I never, really ever, had one thing going on. I always had something, and then something sort of on the side whether it be studying or work which all throughout my 20s was definitely out of financial necessity and having to do that in some cases rather than wanting to. So, yeah, it made sense as it was happening for me. But when I look back or when I say to people, oh, i actually started out teaching English And now I'm doing this, it's sort of like how did that happen? And then when I explain all of the things in the middle, it's sort of prompts people to ask the question even more How did all of that happen?

Zoe: 32:48

Yeah, I think that curiosity must just come from people questioning themselves. When they're asking you, it's almost like were you doing something that I didn't think was possible or that I wasn't there to believe was the right path? if there is such a thing, and therefore they are naturally curious, but I can't help but think it says more about them than it does about you. It's kind of like well, where has that come from? Why are you so curious? Is this something that you haven't considered? Did you think that you had to stick with this one career until you die? You know?

Hayley Dawson: 33:25

absolutely Yeah, and I think you can't be what you can't see, and I think that's what I think is. So I sort of I tried to. I didn't know that at the time or that that's what I was doing. When I look back now I realise that's what was maybe happening. But I think a part of it is that I sought out mentors, tried to connect with lots of different people who were in different professions, who were like me, who weren't like me at all, and it really sort of opened my eyes to all of these things that we can be and build and create And it kind of showed me that you can. Actually there is a way to do whatever you want to do. For some people it's far more difficult to get there than other people, for a variety of different reasons, but you can do it.

Zoe: 34:17

And so how did you manage to create those kind of connections with people?

Hayley Dawson: 34:22

Putting myself out there was the main thing.

Hayley Dawson: 34:26

So I and it also comes from a kind of that necessity that I mentioned earlier to do more than one thing at a time as well So, yes, i was working in retail in my late teens, but I was also studying. And then, yes, in my early 20s I had this job, but to make ends meet, i also had to have that job And it just exposed me to lots of different ways of working, lots of different things happening and lots of different people. It was also a recipe for immense stress and exhaustion and burnout. But again, i think that sort of it sort of takes me back to the struggles, one of the struggles of modern adulthood being that and the sort of financial instability that we struggle with as well. So I'm not saying that financial instability was a good thing, but it did lead me down that path of having to put myself out there And you know that necessity of really needing to explore every avenue possible, because I knew that was the only way that I was going to make life work.

Zoe: 35:38

Yeah, you seem to have realised certain things quite early on in life. I feel like I was probably about 10 years maybe not 10, but sort of seven or eight years behind where you are in terms of what I then felt was possible. It's interesting because, being 30, i still feel like you have so much time to then implement all of these things that you've already become aware of. So I think it's you know, it's fabulous that you're now putting this information in front of people who are just that step behind you, so that hopefully, they won't feel like that or, if they do feel like that, they will be able to find their way, their way out.

Hayley Dawson: 36:25

Yeah, yeah, and I think the thing is is that when I sort of think back to the situations I was in and how I was in my sort of late teens and all throughout my 20s, i actually sometimes feel quite sorry for that person that I was, because I didn't realise that everything was going to work out okay. So when I think back, i sort of think, oh God, i really wish that I could have realised or that I could have told myself everything is going to be fine, you can calm down a bit, you can chill out a bit, you don't need to panic as much as you are, because everything will be fine. And I think, when I think back to that also, i like to share it because I think it's quite a powerful message for people, because we are all under so much pressure to figure everything out, whatever that means right, and in early adulthood especially, we think that we're a mess and we constantly beat ourselves up for not having it all together. But I think this is a myth that we're actually led to believe in adulthood, the myth being that one day we'll figure it all out. Because I recognise that we do figure things out, but that's just it.

Hayley Dawson: 37:43

They're things. We figure out bits and pieces as we go through life. We figure out where we're going to live and what we want to study, where we'll work, what we'll do. We might figure out a romantic relationship, a platonic friendship, but nothing is ever completely sorted out. And there are so many moving pieces in our lives. It's like I don't know 100 cogs in a machine and they're all moving and shifting place. But actually we could set out to do something, do it, and then after some time we might think, oh, i enjoyed this and it served me well, but I want to move on now. And that's great. It means having to figure something out. And how exciting is that.

Zoe: 38:27

I think it's all about that reframing, it isn't it as well?

Hayley Dawson: 38:30

Absolutely it is it is, And I sort of came to realise that through listening to stories from people in their 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s and one thing seemed really clear, which is that life takes a lifetime to figure out. There will always be something to do, something to fix, an unfulfilled dream, and I think that the sooner we can embrace this is the sooner that we can let go of the pressure to have it all figured out, especially by a certain age. And yeah, i get. What has helped me and this is the first time I think I'm ever sharing this is just making a list of everything that you have figured out so far and then taking each item on that list one by one and asking yourself how has that thing changed since you last figured it out?

Hayley Dawson: 39:23

A good example is like with work. So something that you once figured out could be that you needed a job and you found one great. But that's something that's likely to need figuring out again and again every few years as you change your job and you grow. So I find that doing that type of exercise really opens. well, it opened my eyes and it does open people's eyes to the fact that everything is constantly moving and that we're actually fine where we are now.

Zoe: 39:50

Yeah, it's so true. I think when you're in the thick of it you can't see the wood for the trees, and it's only afterwards that you kind of like. Do you know what? it reminds me of this conversation a little bit The pressure of doing your GCSEs, which, for anyone international, are like your school leaving exams. There's so much pressure put on you because everything is riding on these exams.

Zoe: 40:14

They're the thing that are going to get you into your college, or further education, which, if you then want to pursue university course, everything is riding on these exams. But it's just a stepping stone, it's not the be all and end all. And later on in life I really felt like that wasn't portrayed enough. It was like if you fail, your life is over and you're 16. You can't go into something like an end of school exam feeling like, if you fail or if you don't get the grades you want, everything's over, and I think so many things that then happen in life afterwards are similar to that.

Zoe: 40:55

At the time it feels like because we put the pressure on ourselves or we absorb the external pressure, everything is riding on this. I mustn't fail, it's got to work out. And if we can let go of that and see it as just another stepping stone because, as you say, there are all these moving parts, life just keeps changing around us We start to realise that actually it's one stepping stone, but it's not the only one. It's one solution at that moment, but it's not the only one. And when you fail an exam, you can reset, you can change direction. It's actually an opportunity to do something different, i think, even in a sort of career context, if we can perhaps learn to think of these things as stepping stones into something else, even the failures, the not failures, that they're things that are going to make us stop and reflect and change. There's a whole attitude about this that things like the blocks can help normalise And once it becomes the normal conversation, perhaps the next generation will stop seeing them as failures.

Hayley Dawson: 42:07

Definitely yeah, and I think we sort of get caught up in this comparison and self doubt as well, especially when we think about failure, because we sort of think, oh God, i failed at this one thing, but that person didn't. And I think, especially today, especially the world we live in now, the internet and social media are incredible towards, but we are constantly seeing people's achievements, constantly, and they might even be achieving things that they didn't want to achieve in the first place because they're not clear on their own definition of success. Right, but what we consume online impacts what we do in real life, how we act, the job we have, the holidays we take, what we watch, read, eat everything, and its influence is really sort of shaping culture and politics and education and more. But yeah, i think that we tend to compare when we are going through these stepping stones and we compare our journey to other peoples and especially our failures as well.

Hayley Dawson: 43:12

I was actually interviewing a young woman the other day who's in her early 30s and she was sharing her struggles with feeling like a failure, even though actually she's done something incredible, and she was sharing those struggles and they were linking with comparison as well, really strongly. I noticed She was saying that she recognizes that she has a lovely home. But now, looking back, she only went down that path and purchased the house because she saw what people had on social media and what her friends were doing. And she's saying you know, this is actually not all when it's cracked up to be. She was telling me that the mortgage costs her a fortune every month. She never has people over. She had to move far away from her friends and family to even afford the house in the first place And now she's lonely, tied to making money and broke. And she actually said to me that the house isn't even decorated to my taste.

Hayley Dawson: 44:11

My house just looks like my Instagram feed, but she sort of couldn't help herself. But we sucked into what she was seeing other people doing And because people were doing that and she wasn't, she felt like a failure. But they actually just weren't her stepping stones to take in the first place because she didn't want them. But she sort of had this realization during our chat that she only wants things because other people have them and that actually it was just really confusing.

Hayley Dawson: 44:41

I my work, i usually compare previous generations to the current ones and it would be unfair of me to say or insinuate in any way that generations before us didn't face the issues that we have, such as failure and comparison and self doubt And, in some cases, increased risk of depression and anxiety and everything.

Hayley Dawson: 45:02

These challenges absolutely existed for the people that came before us, but the thing is, i think, is that our parents and our grandparents and great grandparents didn't hold the potential cause of that in the palm of their hands Right And they didn't wait. The glossy holiday pictures and announcements of new jobs and perfect selfies and everything They sort of trick us into thinking that everyone has it all except from us, and that's really where figuring out what we want comes in, just because you see someone with a glossy life doesn't mean that you want it. Have you asked yourself whether you want that Or do you want to rebel against that? you know Rebell. Yeah, i just really encourage people to think about what it is that you truly want and whether that aligns with your thoughts and actions and values and the path you're going down. And if it feels like you're rebelling, great, do it.

Zoe: 46:03

Absolutely So. where do you see the blocks going? Where would you like to imagine it in I don't know 12 months time?

Hayley Dawson: 46:12

Yeah, so at the moment, the blocks is a community and workshop series. We I say we, it's actually me and a team of project-based freelancers But we deliver workshops to communities, organisations, corporates, charities, schools and universities about all sorts of different themes sort of work and careers, health and wellbeing and looking at living a life on your own terms as well, and we have some things on the quarterly life too. So in the next 12 months, i see us really branching out, delivering those workshops, reaching those people and really having that positive impact and helping people to realise what they want to do and how to build a life that is the most meaningful for them and sort of releasing themselves from these pressures that we have of modern adulthood, because it can be incredibly stressful and incredibly exhausting. But we're also a community online where we share articles and ideas around life And I'm trying to get people together to really help people help each other, and also I'm working on something quite exciting at the moment. So the blocks at the moment it's the community and workshop series, but it's also going to be a book.

Hayley Dawson: 47:47

I'm writing a book on modern adulthood at the moment And it's really about alleviating those pressures of modern adulthood and helping people to build a life on their own terms. It explores the challenges of modern life, especially for young adults, and I share other people's stories as well to show that we're not alone, because community and connection are really the pieces that most of us are missing out on. But I really want to highlight, throughout the work that we do, and the book as well, that we're all in this together And to try to get people thinking about how we all have something that needs work we always will but we also also have something that can help other people as well. We all have completely different experiences and perspectives on things and ideas and skills, and the more that we share all of that, the more we realise how much we can really help one another, even if we think that we have nothing to offer. I promise everyone you have something to offer. You just got to find it, that's all.

Zoe: 48:55

Hayley, i have loved this conversation so much and I just know that there will be people out there who feel relieved from things that they've heard you talk about today. Where can people get hold of you and find out more about The Blocks?

Hayley Dawson: 49:14

Thank you, i'm so pleased And I've absolutely loved this conversation and sharing these ideas as well. Yeah, just here to help and make people have these, allow them to have these realisations. So I'm glad it's been a good conversation for you too. But people can find me @_ the blocks on social media, on Instagram, and I would love to invite people to come and join The Blocks community as well, the online community where you can meet other people who maybe, just like you, are working out what they want to do for work, who they want to spend time with, how to make and save money and just enjoy life in the process. So, yeah, they're all the kinds of things that we talk about over there, and we are at the-blocks. co. uk/ community.

Zoe: 50:10

I will link all of those in the showmates. Anyway, amazing. Thank you, you're so welcome. Thank you so much. Honestly, i loved it. I hope you loved today's episode and it made you think differently or perhaps nudged you into changing something in your life that's not working for you. I'd love to give you a shout out right here on the podcast too, so let me know what you think, what you'd like to hear more of, or how you've been inspired by what you've heard. Let's keep in touch over on Instagram at @mischiefandhide, or sign up to my newsletter at zoegreenhalf. com If you're enjoying being part of the Mischief Movement, please consider telling a friend or leaving me a review wherever you download your episodes, which will seriously help my mission to inspire and empower more people like us to choose mischief over mediocre. Ciao.